Speaking to the Future:
Louise Beeman Hier and Florence Campbell Beeman
Oral history interview with
Louise Beeman Hier and Florence Campbell Beeman
Interview Conducted on May 7, 2001, recorded in Sedalia, Colorado. 2001.037
Sedalia Historic Fire House Museum Oral History Project
[Interview conducted] by Barbara Machann
Transcribed by Pamela Catlin
Original transcript on deposit at Douglas County History Research Center, Douglas County Libraries, Castle Rock, CO.
Note: The transcript of this oral history is as accurate as possible. All text in brackets is not part of the oral history. It has been added for clarification purposes.
Mary Cornish appears late in the transcript.
BEGIN TAPE 1 SIDE 1
BARBARA MACHANN: Okay, this is May 7, 2001, and this is an interview with Florence Campbell and Louise Hier. Tell me when Louis Beeman first came to Douglas County.
LOUISE HIER: It was James Beeman.
MACHANN: Oh, James Beeman.
HIER: His father was James Beeman.
MACHANN: Okay, so his father is the first one to come to Douglas County. When did he come?
HIER: And he came to Douglas County before they settled with Buffalo Bill Cody, hunting buffalo for the railroad. And they, he and my grandmother lived in Kansas. And he was coming back and she said, “Well, we're going with you.” So they packed a covered wagon and came to Colorado.
MACHANN: Oh, what year was that?
HIER: That was in 18 [unclear], I think it was in 18--, early 1800, 1870s and I think it was 1870. I have letters from 1876 that they were telling about the town of Sedalia changing names. From around, from Plum to Sedalia. But they were here in about 1875, 1876.
MACHANN: Oh, they were.
HIER: But he came earlier than that.
MACHANN: Ah, very early.
HIER: Well, the Curtis's, you know, came in 1871. And they came with a family by the name of Vetter [sp?]. And they came to Denver and the Vetter's went north to Loveland and my grandma and grandpa came south, down to Sedalia.
MACHANN: Now, was the Jonathan House place built at that time?
HIER: It was built at that time but my parents, grandparents built the house.
MACHANN: Ah, the big house, Gertrude and --?
HIER: The big house.
MACHANN: And so the little cabin was where you lived while they were building the big house?
FLORENCE CAMPBELL: Well, that's where, grandma lived in the big house. We lived in the little house [unclear] --
HIER: My grandmother lived in the big house but my mother and dad lived in [unclear] --
MACHANN: So Harriet and Louis Beeman lived in the little house.
HIER: The little house.
MACHANN: Now, how did your parents meet?
HIER: Well, they were, my mother, you know was born in Denver and her parents came to what we called Riley Hill and it's at Daniels Park and they homesteaded in 1895. And my Mother was nine years old. My grandfather worked for the City and County of Denver, Tommy Davis. And he would come out on Sundays and his wife, who was my mother's stepmother, because they lost their mother when my mother was three years old. She had a wonderful stepmother. They were, she was a wonderful woman. But she was very small and she couldn't do much work, so she would read how to do things and then my mother and her two older brothers would do the work. And she said it was a great day when they got a hoe so they didn't have to cut weeds with knives. And they thought [unclear] --
MACHANN: Oh, my goodness.
HIER: And they hauled water in an apple crate with wheels about a quarter of a mile to the house.
MACHANN: Oh my.
CAMPBELL: And now we got a spring up there that's where the one hole is. Daniels Park is at the top of the hill, that's where the house was. Louise got to go see it.
HIER: The spring came kind of under one room of the house and now that second golf course at Castle Pines North, that's where that, that's built on my grandparents --
CAMPBELL: That one hole, I don't know what number it is, but here they got a big lake because water was so scarce before.
MACHANN: Oh, can you imagine carrying water a half mile, you know [unclear]. Oh.
HIER: But she said they just loved every minute of it. Their mother, their stepmother would read how it should be done and the kids would do it. And, they, there were the Odd Fellows [Independent Order of Odd Fellows] and Rebekah's [ladies auxiliary of the Odd Fellows] were going to give a Thanks--, big Thanksgiving Ball, a dinner and a ball. So they were having dancing lessons for people who wanted to learn to dance before the ball. And my brothers would always have to take my mother to the dance because they wouldn't let her go, they had to take her and see that she got home safely. And they, my mother started taking dancing lessons and my dad was, Louis Beeman, also came to take dancing lessons. So he asked my mother if she would go to the ball with her and my Uncle George's comment, George Davis's comment was well we don't have to take Hat to the dances anymore. [laughs]
MACHANN: Oh ho, so they knew from the very beginning that there was something special there.
HIER: Uh - huh.
MACHANN: Well your mom must have been really strong. Because I understand she was the midwife for most of the births in the town and --
HIER: Yes, she was. Before she was married she worked in Denver for the people that lived on, oh it was just kind of southwest Denver. They were glass blowers and they were tradesmen. It was Santa Fe Drive and Kalamath, and between First Avenue and south to Alameda, you know that was quite an area for bricklayers and tradesmen to live and my mother worked for people, for a man that was a glassblower whose name was Grafton. She was only sixteen.
CAMPBELL: She stayed in town with Aunt Sally.
HIER: She had an aunt that lived in that area of town.
CAMPBELL: That's why she stayed in town --
HIER: And this aunt really raised her until my grandfather remarried. And so she had sort of two mothers and she thought that was really special.
MACHANN: And she loved them both, yes.
HIER: But she worked for Mr. Grafton and she, in fact she took care of him until he died. She was with him when he died. And then she started working for a Jewish family on Capital Hill. And, they were, they were really slave drivers. They would insist that she polish all the silver and not only take care of the children and they kept, they insisted she do a lot of work. That's when my dad went in and said you don't have to work --. And, so then --
MACHANN: Brought her home.
HIER: Brought her home, yeah, and she came home to get ready for her wedding. And her stepmother was a beautiful seamstress. She used to be, sew for Joslin's. She was a seamstress for Joslin's Dry Goods. And, she taught my mother to sew. And they sewed, they made all of her, her trousseau and she helped mom can. My mother canned food, she had food canned and she had, she was ready to become a bride. And my mother, my stepmother died in October. So, my mother was married in November but she never wore her wedding dress because --
MACHANN: Oh, she didn't?
HIER: An aunt of, a cousin of her stepmother insisted she should still be in mourning. So she never got to wear her wedding dress.
MACHANN: That's too bad. I bet she would have been really special to have a dress like that.
HIER: Yes.
MACHANN: Did any of the other family wear the dress after --?
HIER: No, you know, my mother never said what became of that dress. She just said, she, we do have a picture of my mom in the wedding dress.
MACHANN: Oh, you do!
HIER: I'll get it and you can start talking some more about -- [laughs, Hier leaves]
CAMPBELL: Well, I don't really know, she's got the history. [unclear] [something falls and makes a loud noise] Here is Tom Davis and Aunt Sally, his sister.
MACHANN: Okay, now which one is Aunt Sally?
CAMPBELL: This is mom's dad.
MACHANN: Uh huh.
CAMPBELL: And this is mom, and this is Aunt Sally, who raised her, and that's her daughter, Aunt Mary. But, see grandpa, this is Grandpa Beeman and Grandma, see?
MACHANN: Uh huh, and who are these two back here?
HIER: That's my mother and dad.
MACHANN: Oh it is?
HIER: Well isn't it?
CAMPBELL: Well, I don't, yeah --
HIER: Yeah, this is Aunt Mary and this is Grandpa, this Aunt Annie.
CAMPBELL: He needed a shave, but Jim Price --
HIER: This is my mother and dad.
CAMPBELL: I said that one is your dad, Grandpa --
HIER: This is Jim Price's granddad and grandma --
MACHANN: Now, was this taken on --?
HIER: On their porch.
MACHANN: Beeman porch. Would it be possible for me to take that and get a, get a blow-up and and copy of that?
CAMPBELL: I think we have a blow-up of that somewhere.
HIER: Well, I'll give this to Barbara and she can get --
MACHANN: I'll return it. You know I'll keep it safe and return that to you.
HIER: Before I leave, before you leave, let me look and see it I don't have it.
MACHANN: Okay. [unclear] Well, yes --
HIER: Because we have got a blow-up. [clearing throat]
CAMPBELL: Jim Price. I said that's Jim's grandma and that's Uncle Fred, but he said he had a picture of that but he didn't have a picture of his mother.
MACHANN: Now, this is the patriarch, isn't it?
HIER: Yes, that's James Beeman and, these are, this is his son. That's my dad, and this is his oldest son, Walter, this is his son, Charlie, and this is grandma and grandpa.
CAMPBELL: And that's what they want to know. What happened to the rest. [unclear]
HIER: And these people are visiting.
MACHANN: Oh, okay.
HIER: This is, Herb Manhart.
MACHANN: Oh, really?
HIER: My dad was a very good friend of Herb Manhart.
MACHANN: Uh huh. [pause] And right back here?
HIER: This, I can't, I don't remember. I have to, I should get the, I don't know where that bigger picture --
CAMPBELL: Now, here's--. That's something Bobbie's wrote for you, evidently, before. See, she's got a name of everybody on that picture.
MACHANN: Good, well I've not seen this one before, so I'll bet that was before [laughter] we got the other, but if I can --
HIER: [unclear] Remember who that was --
MACHANN: Yes, oh, that's wonderful. Well, if I can take these two and I know you've got some.
HIER: They're written on, that's one written on, is it?
CAMPBELL: No, see she's got it all wrote down there.
MACHANN: Yes, looks like --
CAMPBELL: And I think --
MACHANN: You recognize Bobbie's handwriting.
HIER: And this is, she doesn't have the names of the boys, of the bro--, of Charlie.
CAMPBELL: Charlie.
HIER: And Fred and Myrtle.
MACHANN: Well, and especially this.
HIER: And Herb Manhart --
MACHANN: Herb Manhart.
HIER: And this is the oldest, this is their oldest son Walt, and these two people, they were visiting, and this is --
MACHANN: I wonder if they're the ones that had the camera?
HIER: This is Walt, this is Walter Beeman and his wife Beda. And these people were visiting. This is, this is Walter and Beda. My dad, and Charlie and Myrtle.
CAMPBELL: See, they want to know where the rest of the Beeman's, see --
MACHANN: Somebody must have been taking the pictures.
CAMPBELL: Well, Aunt Annie's --. Aunt, does she say on there? The one Aunt Annie's, ah, Sally Shepard --
HIER: Aunt Annie, see her husband was a photographer.
CAMPBELL: And he was the one that would come out with the cameras.
MACHANN: Oh, that's neat.
HIER: And he taught my mother to do to take tintypes.
MACHANN: Ah, well you know Sedalia is really blessed because we do have so many good pictures of the early town. I wonder if he's the one that took those pictures?
CAMPBELL: Well I don't. Was there other people that took them too, Louise?
HIER: I don't know.
CAMPBELL: See, they would come out from Denver after --
HIER: Since I had remodeled, Tony's moved my pictures all over [laughter]. I've got a tintype of my, of my mother. I don't know where she put it now.
MACHANN: Well, Jim Price shared one of his pictures of his mother, and --. Or his grandmother and grandfather, I guess it was.
CAMPBELL: Oh, well. See, he said he had a picture of Uncle Fred and them.
MACHANN: Yes.
CAMPBELL: Well what I had was the Sedalia School when I was in the first grade and his mother is the biggest one, bigger than the teacher, see. And I said --
HIER: Do you know who that is?
CAMPBELL: No. Well, it's Dolly. Oh darn it, I don't have any pictures of her, but she always sat down, the pictures that he got when she was with Art.
MACHANN: Oh, because she was fairly tall.
CAMPBELL: She was as big as Art.
MACHANN: Hmm, that's interesting.
HIER: But he just took it. And I take it to Barbara. Well now, there her wedding dress is.
MACHANN: Oh, yes.
HIER: She had a sixteen-inch waist when she was married.
CAMPBELL: Probably, [unclear] took that too.
HIER: And this is my Uncle George Davis and Rose Gracie, who were their attendants at their wedding.
MACHANN: Oh, okay, so George Davis was?
CAMPBELL: Was mom's brother [unclear].
HIER: He was best man, and she was my mother's [unclear].
MACHANN: Yes, oh, what a neat picture, and what a beautiful dress.
HIER: Yes, it was a beautiful.
MACHANN: And the long, it looks like long gloves there, it's hard to tell whether --
HIER: I have the gloves.
MACHANN: Oh, you do.
HIER: And my dad's tie. We still have that.
MACHANN: Oh, that's special. Well, I have a picture of your dad, and I think this was taken in 1908.
HIER: Oh, yes, at the fill-in of the bridge.
MACHANN: Of the bridge.
HIER: Uh huh. And --
MACHANN: And isn't that of him when it's done?
HIER: And I have written somewhere, my mother told me the names of those horses. And I have it written somewhere.
MACHANN: Oh, so they actually helped build Sedalia from the very beginning.
HIER: And he filled that in, you know, with a Fresno, you know what a Fresno is?
MACHANN: Ah, that's one of those huge scoops and then the horses --
HIER: It's a big scoop and the horses, that's the way he filled it, and he also filled in the bridge at Parker, that way.
MACHANN: Oh, he did?
HIER: He and my mother moved over there for a month while he worked on that bridge.
MACHANN: Wow, that's --. So he did a lot of work in the county.
HIER: He worked with horses, but they also raised seed, crops. They sold corn and oats and rye. They sold --. Mr. Hier said my Grandfather Beeman was the best farmer on the creek. He knew more about [unclear] farming than anybody.
MACHANN: Oh, yes because to grow seeds --
HIER: And they raised a lot of, my Uncle Fred and Aunt Myrtle lived at the Larson Place, but my dad did the farming on it.
MACHANN: Oh, and that bottom is so rich, yes.
HIER: And Uncle Fred, you know, he built his own thrashing machine and farm machinery and he would go around and custom, do custom work for other people.
CAMPBELL: And now they've got it, you've got to go see, they've got it all under irrigation. Uncle Fred [unclear] best place on the creek now.
MACHANN: Oh, they probably, probably will be.
HIER: And we had restored --
CAMPBELL: Took pictures and Pop says you are going to run out. I said give me a second to jump, to get out and they took pictures. And they, no house yet --. Big barns and everything. But when we left here, a couple of pheasants down in the creek bottom and some turkeys crossing the road, it was great.
HIER: They restored the barn in there. Uncle Fred had the blacksmith shop where he did all of his, his work. And --
MACHANN: People used to do that, yes.
HIER: They restored that. We have a picture of that with an old REO car in front of it and my sister Harriet and, and of, playing in that car. [laughter]
CAMPBELL: Well, I'll have to get that and put [unclear]. I don't have that in here, this book --
HIER: We've got that picture somewhere.
CAMPBELL: Well, just what I took, I don't have them playing in the car.
HIER: They were sitting in the car and they were real --
CAMPBELL: And what used to be the corn field, that's where they got the big pond out there now.
MACHANN: Oh, well I noticed what they've done to the gate over there.
HIER: Uh huh, aren't they beautiful?
MACHANN: They're really something.
HIER: The barn. Uncle Fred was related to a Stevens that used to live on the creek. You've heard of the Stevens?
MACHANN: I have, yes.
CAMPBELL: Wasn't that his wife's name, Stevens?
HIER: Maybe she was related to them, because when Mr. Stevens died he left money. He didn't leave it to my Uncle Fred. He left it to my Aunt Myrtle and that's what they built the barn with.
MACHANN: Ah, that's a beautiful barn. I love the copper roof they put on the silos now.
HIER: Yes, that barn is really a show place now.
MACHANN: Now, are they going to develop that into a --
HIER: It's a private home, no [unclear]
CAMPBELL: Well, they said he's got more money than he knows what to do with. I told Bob he's doing all right, but they must be going to have more barns, no more big houses, see.
HIER: Well, they 're going to build [unclear] [laughter and coughing] My son, George, says it's a private home.
MACHANN: Well, all of us keep hoping they might do that with Penley's too and not develop it into five-acre home sites or more. But things are changing.
HIER: So much.
MACHANN: Well, when did you mom start midwifing? After she had her children, or --?
HIER: After she, yes, and after she, when my mother, when my dad died --
CAMPBELL: Well, Grandma and Aunt [unclear]
HIER: My Grandmother had fallen and broken her hip. And she, they mov--. When she sold the ranch, my folks moved off of the ranch, up to a place by my granddad Davis's on Riley Hill. And they only lived there a month, I think. Florence was old enough to walk but she wasn't, didn't walk because the house didn't have a floor in it. Then they bought up by the James place, on --
CAMPBELL: Jackson Creek.
MACHANN: Yes, up in that.
HIER: And that is where Jack and I were born. And after they were, I think, they were up there three years and they were just, they had just taken their cattle to the market to sell, and the, war was declared and the prices just dropped out of everything. And they lost, they lost everything. So they gave up that place and moved to Sedalia. And my grandmother lived over, you know, in the house where we always lived next to Shirley, and Jack. She lived there but we lived in that two-story house.
CAMPBELL: The tall house out in the [unclear]
HIER: That was in the backyard, and it was one room downstairs and one room upstairs. My mother and dad and seven kids lived in that house.
MACHANN: Oh my, my goodness.
HIER: Grandma had that big house but nobody slept in her house. [laughter]
MACHANN: Now, is that where you Mom had the fire?
HIER/CAMPBELL: No.
HIER: No, it was later.
CAMPBELL: That's after she --
HIER: My grandmother fell and broke her hip and she was in bed for four years. And my mother and dad took care of her.
CAMPBELL: Well, Aunt Myrtle too.
HIER: And then, well they would take care of her. My dad would take care of her at night and my mom would take care of her during the day. And then my Aunt Myrtle got sick and she had what they called TB of the bone, but it's really leukemia. So they were, she came home, she came to be taken care of. And, my mother would try to take care of them during the day and my gran--, my dad would take care of them at night. And my Aunt Myrtle couldn't stand a lot of heat and my dad was susceptible to pneumonia. He felt, he had had it several times and was very susceptible to it.
MACHANN: So his lungs had been weakened by previous --
HIER: And Aunt Myrtle died in January and my dad contacted pneumonia and he died in April. So, my Mother was left to take care of my grandmother.
MACHANN: And your Mom was fairly young then when your dad died.
HIER: Yes. She was, yeah, she was thirty-nine. Widow with, Art, my brother Art was seventeen and he took my dad's job. My dad worked for the county. And that's on the porch of the house where we lived [unclear].
CAMPBELL: And that's Harriet and Annie and me and Jack and Louise, but that's the way the house, that's after the fire --
HIER: That was before the fire.
CAMPBELL: Before the fire.
HIER: That's the house that burned.
CAMPBELL: But, see grandma was still alive when we had the fire, so we lived in that little house by --
HIER: Where Lila Corbet lived.
CAMPBELL: Lila Corbet lived, so they put up the tents for Art and Uncle George and all of them.
HIER: They slept in the garage and the tents. [laughter]
CAMPBELL: Tents and everything.
HIER: And there grandma was at the big house, see, had to take care of her.
MACHANN: But she didn't let anybody stay with her, you know?
HIER: My mother finally just said, I've got to have help and so she, she had different people. They would stay and take care of her, but she was, she was very difficult to take care of. But there was a Mrs. Morrison, who was Virginia Ullery's grandmother, and she was born and raised up on Plum Creek. And she took, she was wonderful with my grandmother and she helped my mom so much that way. Because mom had all of us kids to take care of.
MACHANN: Oh, how did she do it?
CAMPBELL: See. That's how big we were when Gran, when daddy died.
HIER: After, yes, just the day before my dad, our dad died.
CAMPBELL: But Annie had the pneumonia too.
HIER: Annie was sick, and that was just before he died, though. But Annie was sick with pneumonia, she had pleural pneumonia. They had to take her to the hospital, Children's Hospital and drain her lungs.
MACHANN: That's a long way to go --
HIER: That was a long way.
MACHANN: -- for medical help.
HIER: But my dad would be sick with pneumonia, in fact he got blood poisoning from a tick bite in his hand and that's what weakened his system so bad. He was at St. Luke's Hospital. And he was there for a month. And he told, Archie can remember him telling this about staying at St. Luke's and he thought he was strong enough to start taking walks. He said he walked around the, St. Luke's was probably a block, you know, square and he said that was the longest walk he ever taken in his life.
MACHANN: Oh, yes, especially weak like that.
HIER: But, Annie, they didn't expect Annie to live. In fact they held the funeral for a few days, thinking that both of them, would be for both of them.
MACHANN: But she managed to come. She was stronger because she hadn't had the tick bite.
CAMPBELL: No, she was younger, too.
HIER: Yes, she was quite young.
MACHANN: Well, it sounds like your dad was such a hard worker.
HIER: He was a very hard worker. And really he saved that, he worked on the ranch and my grandfather, you know, was kicked in the head in '76 [1876] and he never was able to do the work anymore.
MACHANN: Oh no, I didn't know that.
HIER: Well, it was customary. A road went from Denver to Colorado Springs through Sedalia and up Plum Creek.
CAMPBELL: He was blind in that one eye.
MACHANN: Oh, in the right eye?
HIER: Up Perry Park Road and people would, his place was a half-way stopping. They'd come with their horses, carriages and they would stop at my grandfather's and I don't know whether they, they didn't sleep there. They must of had tents or something, but they would put their horses up in my grandfather's barn.
MACHANN: Oh, and maybe just in that front field would camp out.
HIER: And in a tent or something, they might have stayed, they would stay anyway. Maybe they stayed at the Weaver House in Sedalia, I don't know. But they did put their horses in my grandfather's barn. And this one man never told my grandfather that that horse kicked and he walked behind him and the horse kicked him in the head. And he, they didn't realize how, the only doctor they had --. There were no doctors in Sedalia, so Marquis Victor, who was ah --
CAMPBELL: The blacksmith.
HIER: But he was in the Civil War and he was, well we call them medic, medical person now. But he worked, that's what he did was take care of the wounded, and he took care of my grandfather and saved his life.
MACHANN: Wow!
HIER: And they, they didn't realize until six months later Grandpa started feeling, he was, they thought he was alright because he was telling them what to do everyday and what chores to be done, how to do it, but he sort of regained his memory six months later. And my mother was expecting my dad, and the oldest boy was trying to do all the work and my grandmother would carry water up from the creek. My grandmother was expecting my dad, it wasn't my mother, would carry the water from the creek at night so Walt wouldn't have so much work to do.
CAMPBELL: See, that's the one in the picture.
MACHANN: Yes, yes, over here, yes.
CAMPBELL: By Aunt Myrtle and Walter [unclear]
HIER: But my dad, it was in '78 [1878] because that was when my dad was --. My dad was born in '78 [1878].
MACHANN: And he lost the sight in the right eye.
HIER: He lost the sight in his right eye and his health was never any good after that.
MACHANN: Well, you can understand why.
CAMPBELL: When George -- he would take care of mom, had the kids see, George was just little. She'd put him in a red dress. He'd run off and he'd, and gypsies and down here at the trees at 105. So Grandpa could see him, and he though he was a little blitz to take care of.
MACHANN: Oh, and he probably was.
HIER: When the gypsies arrived, George would take to field, pasture for the horses. He'd go to the horses because he was scared to death of the gypsies, he thought they were going to steal him. But by that, but he was always out in the pasture with the horses, so my mom had to dress him in red so she could find him.
MACHANN: So she could find him. [laughter].
HIER: And later Uncle Walt and Aunt, Aunt Beda, they had homesteaded in Nebraska and then, no they hadn't gone to Nebraska yet. But they were there, and Elsie and George were real good friends, pals. They really did a lot together and she, George was about ten and Elsie was twelve. They would take the milk to the creamery every day and, and this big -- was on wheels, but it was a big tank of some kind and they'd bring whey home for the pigs, after they take the milk and they bring the whey home. Well, they lost the cork to the tank, so in order to keep from loosing all the whey, they would take turns running behind the tank and stick their finger in the hole. [laughter] They drove up the lane and my grandmother and Aunt Beda saw, here was Elsie with her, she was all dressed up pretty when she left. [laughter] She was covered with whey. My mother and my grandpa thought that was the funniest thing they'd ever seen, my grandma and Aunt Beda just about died.
MACHANN: Oh, I can just imagine. Oh. [laughter] What did they use for a cork after that?
HIER: I, they probably found one.
MACHANN: Or a stick or something.
HIER: Yes, a twig or something to put in.
MACHANN: That would fit in there. [laughter]
CAMPBELL: But that was Mom. She'd take the milk over after she milked, you know, and that's when the one day she said “Does anybody know anybody that want's to buy a ranch?” And Duncan happened to be there or something.
HIER: Oh, she called a man at Parker, she talked to him and he said sure I've got a couple that are really interested in buying a ranch. So he sent them over, but she, mom sold the ranch.
CAMPBELL: She'd had enough of that.
MACHANN: Oh, oh, I can imagine, can you imagine trying to keep a ranch going.
CAMPBELL: Well, here with five kids, see, and we moved up there. I didn't learn to walk until Dave was born about and ended up there at Jackson Creek. And that Fred LaPerrier would say, “Don't you want to talk about the history of Jackson Creek,” and I, well really, Mom just referred to it as the “hell hole.” We didn't [laughter], she didn't --
HIER: Of all the trials and tribulations she had in her life, that was, that was --
MACHANN: That was one that really --
HIER: That was the worst, that's when my dad got --
CAMPBELL: So poor Fred he don't get much history from me.
MACHANN: Oh well.
HIER: That's when my dad was, had the tick bite on his hand and got blood poisoning and almost died from that. And then he got pneumonia and he was back in the hospital and, and his health was really bad when they gave up the ranch. And he was working on the county on the road, and so they gave Art the job if he could take it, if he could do it. He was seventeen years old.
MACHANN: Oh, and he took it.
HIER: And he took the job, and then he later went to work for the state highway. Worked there until he retired.
CAMPBELL: Oh, and that's when George worked for C. A. Johnson. Anything pertaining to a horse, George was interested in.
MACHANN: Oh, right, yeah.
HIER: And he could, and he went to work for Mr. Johnson.
MACHANN: So, he was up there when the castle was actually built?
HIER: It --
CAMPBELL: Johnson was there, they built it, what --
MACHANN: Was about 1924.
HIER: Well he didn't work for C. A. Johnson. He worked for a man by the name of Latimer, that owned the ranch where --
CAMPBELL: The lower ranch.
HIER: The lower ranch of Tweet's, you know. Well that was, George worked for that man and his name was Latimer. And he sold the land to C. A. Johnson, later. But George worked for Latimer and, he was on his way to work the day of the fire and he hitched his, the tank to his horse and brought it down.
MACHANN: Empty!
HIER: Empty, empty. It wasn't, there was no tank, chemicals in it.
MACHANN: Thank goodness your mom had the courage to stand up and say this is not going to happen again.
HIER: To somebody else.
MACHANN: She must have been a remarkable woman. [clock chimes]
HIER: But you know, my mother cared for people all her life, even when she was having cancer treatments. Connie Weekly, the county nurse, came by to give her a shot every week. And she came by and she came over to my house and she said “Louise, I can't find you mother.” And I said, “Oh, I'm sure she's around”, so we started looking. Sshe was over to the neighbors and they were real sick, so she was over there to see if she could do something for them.
MACHANN: Now, when she was midwifing, would the pregnant woman go to her?
HIER: No, she went to them and would stay two weeks.
MACHANN: Oh, she would. What did you guys do?
HIER: She would take over, she'd take care, do all the cooking and laundry --
MACHANN: Would you guys go with her?
HIER: Any children, or anything they had, why she would take care of them as well --
MACHANN: Well, you guys must have been pretty self-sufficient.
CAMPBELL: Well, later on we had to fill in, like up to Oakes, we have to, Oakes' had six kids, didn't they?
HIER: Something like six.
CAMPBELL: So we'd have to go up there and kind of help her with them when we got a littler bigger.
MACHANN: But that's not D. C. Oakes?
HIER: No, no.
CAMPBELL: No, that's a different --
HIER: No. They were the Lewis Oakes. They lived up on Bob Hankinson's place, and then they moved to Sedalia into that house next to where Gerald and Nora used to live.
MACHANN: Oh, okay. I know where that is.
HIER: But, my mother, most of the time would go to the homes. The doctor, he was Dr. Palmer, would call her and he would pick her up and they would go to, he'd deliver the baby.
MACHANN: Was he from Castle Rock?
HIER: Uh huh. Walter Palmer, and he would leave her after the baby was born, and she would stay there until my brother would go get her, ten days, two weeks.
MACHANN: Well now, when you dad was in the hospital, how did he get?
HIER: He took he train.
MACHANN: He took the train, took him in there and --
HIER: My mother used to go visit Aunt Sally once in awhile. And she'd get on the train in the morning, and she usually would stay overnight and then come home the next day. And she took, would take the children with her and would, the last time she took George, she said he was so lonesome for his dad, he'd say “I can hear my daddy calling and I never will get home.”
MACHANN: Oh, [laughter] no wonder she him left home.
HIER: So she never brought him, took him overnight again. But Aunt Sally was my mother's salvation, because her mother was gone by then, and Aunt Sally was so good to my mother. And Aunt, she had, her daughters were Annie and Mary, and they were like sisters to my mother. So we just always called them Aunt Annie and Aunt Mary.
MACHANN: Oh yes, because they were, you know, family.
HIER: Special aunts to us.
MACHANN: Right, yes. Well, you know, I remember talking to your mom about history and she was so sharp.
HIER: Oh, she really was.
MACHANN: Oh, she was wonderful. I just wish I'd written everything down.
HIER: Well, this --
MACHANN: Because she could look at these pictures, and probably tell me exactly who all these people were.
HIER: This little house that she lived in, Grandpa Beeman was very impressed with what she could do. And Grandma was a little, I think, jealous of her because he would let mom raise flowers and he wouldn't let Grandma raise flowers, was wasting water, but Mom had her flowers. But she laid her own carpet. He said, “You can't do it,” and she said, “I can.” And to add a room they built a sort of a tent next to it, and she laid a carpet in there. But Grandma wouldn't let her cut a door into the, so they could go from one room --
MACHANN: So they had to go outside and in the --
HIER: But Grandpa needed some help with irrigating one day and she said “Well, I can help you.” So she helped him irrigate and I think he felt that she deserved her flowers. [laughter]
MACHANN: I think she did too.
HIER: But, of course, Grandma Beeman worked hard, too. She worked awful hard, too. But, she always had her flowers and Grandpa never said anything about it.
MACHANN: Well, and if she was out there working like that.
HIER: And she always, besides raising her family, she had to do, she had to cook for the hired man. My Grandmother didn't, but she cooked for the hired man.
MACHANN: She was a busy lady.
HIER: Yes, she was.
MACHANN: With the canning and everything else.
HIER: Canning and, you know, they had Tony Romany, would come around every, you know this man was the butcher and he just went from one place to the other. He lived at Lambert's.
MACHANN: Ah, did he have a wagon?
HIER: Ah, I don't --
CAMPBELL: No, that was Adam Martz.
HIER: Adam Martz that had the wagon. Tony would just go from one place to the other, and stay and help them butcher and help them cut up the meat and then would show them how, would show the women how to preserve the sausage patties, you know. Fry them and put them in melted lard, and they put them in crocks, seal them. And Mom talked about putting hams in, burying their hams in wheat or oats or some kind of grain to keep them --
MACHANN: Rather than smoking them.
HIER: Well, to keep them after they were smoked, but to bury them to keep the flies away, from the flies.
MACHANN: Oh, see there is so much lost knowledge.
HIER: They would bury them in the grain.
MACHANN: Oh, I'm surprised the mice didn't get in.
HIER: Well, I don't think they could get way down deep.
MACHANN: Down into the --
HIER: Down into the, deep as they buried them.
MACHANN: Well, do you two remember any big events around except for the flood of '65 [1965]?
HIER: At Sedalia? Well, it seemed like the biggest event of the year would be their, their Thanksgiving Ball.
MACHANN: Oh, that sounds --
HIER: The Odd Fellows and Rebehahs, you know. They had it at the, in the Manhart Hall. And they had a big turkey dinner and a big dress-up ball. And I've got an invitation in some of Mom's things. I've seen it, to the Thanksgiving Ball, and they were very formal.
MACHANN: And well, I understand the Fourth of July was a big event.
HIER: Oh yes, and they had a big picnic down in the Beeman Grove which is just on the other side of the bridge into that area.
MACHANN: Well, and I understand Nelsons had it a few times there. They had horse races down there or something on that bottom field. Do you remember that?
HIER: No, the picnic ground was right here off of [Highway] 67.
MACHANN: Oh, it was. It was there rather than here.
HIER: On the other side of the bridge. But Mr. Hier, you know, had a regular race track over here.
MACHANN: No, I didn't know that.
HIER: Uh huh, right see where that grey roof is, right in front of that field, in front of that house. If you are in a plane you can still see the circle.
MACHANN: Because it is a beautiful flat area.
HIER: Oh, Mr. Hier, that was their race track. But they had races up and down the street all the time.
MACHANN: Oh, I'll bet they did, because somebody got their horses --
HIER: Well, we have pictures of them.
CAMPBELL: Well, that's the one in --
HIER: Racing down the street. But Mr. Hier had a race track over there. And you know their, their big event, social life for the men around here was trading animals. That was really, it wasn't as much a necessity as a social life, really.
MACHANN: Oh, well that's [unclear].
HIER: They were always trading.
CAMPBELL: Hal and Burt Lowell would trade and they knew we were the only [unclear].
HIER: They kind of watched for Burt Lowell, and, ah --
MACHANN: Well, I imagine the Grange was sort of an outlet.
CAMPBELL: Grange once a month, to dance, and that was the big deal.
HIER: You know, later in our lives, the Grange, the dances at the Grange. That's where they had a lot of the fund-raisers for the fire department was the Grange. And their dinners.
MACHANN: How about the Depression?
HIER: Pardon?
MACHANN: How about the Depression, when that --?
HIER: Well, you know, everybody was poor and we all [unclear].
CAMPBELL: For a dollar, no that --
HIER: Fifty cents or a dollar, we, and you know, people made their own entertainment. We didn't have to go to Denver to the movies, or--
CAMPBELL: Well, and Eddie Hier's music. It didn't cost very much to, we called it the canned music.
HIER: Eddie Hier, Mr. Johnson had a beautiful record player, really. And, in fact Tony has it now and it stands about like --. When Mr. Johnson sold his place, Mom said that was one thing that she wanted, so she got that. And it was, it's about this big and it, I guess, double doors and you open it up. He had a record player in there. Then, we would bring it every Saturday night and they'd have a dance down here at the Grange Hall. And I think it was, was it fifty cents, or supper was fifty cents?
CAMPBELL: Well, something. But see, I baked cakes. Esther and I would make cakes.
HIER: The women would make cakes and --
CAMPBELL: Sandwiches, see --
HIER: Sandwiches, and that was their supper. And, that was their social life, really.
CAMPBELL: And, everybody around came to the Grange Hall.
HIER: And the turkey shoots. They would have a dinner or lunch or something at the Grange Hall and they played cards at the Grange. And then the rest, they'd shoot down here below your house.
MACHANN: Uh huh, down on that hill.
HIER: Yes, and they had box socials, you know, they did. They had box socials, those were really big events.
CAMPBELL: Yeah, made fancy boxes, see.
HIER: Decorate them.
MACHANN: And then, of course, you'd always show your fella what your box looked like.
HIER: They'd know for sure. [laughter] Archie tells a story of, there was, Marie Jones's sister was teacher at Jarre Canyon and she had a, they had a box social and Louis Harcourt was, wanted to go with her. And who else was it that used to go with her?
CAMPBELL: Marie?
HIER: Not Marie, but Margaret. Someone else here in Sedalia --
CAMPBELL: [unclear]
HIER: And so, the men they started bidding it up and Louie kept going higher and higher, and finally they all dropped out and Louie was left with this box. He paid quite a good price for it. [laughter] But, you know normally, well, like Margaret Dillon who was Marie's sister. She stayed with Minnie and Vernon. She boarded with Minnie and Vernon and then she taught school at the Jarre Canyon School, which is a house now.
MACHANN: I think we may have a picture of her with the kids --
HIER: Oh, do you?
MACHANN: In the front, yes, but we didn't have a name to it, so now we've got a name. And then Beulah McManis was a teacher at Jarre Creek School.
CAMPBELL: She's the one in that, did you put the names [unclear]?
HIER: And she did. This is Woodbine Lodge.
CAMPBELL: That's your Woodbine pictures.
MACHANN: Oh, good, good.
CAMPBELL: But Louise says there's several different years there.
MACHANN: Well, yes, you told me there are some different shoes here. Yes, and I can see that --
HIER: See the different ones would be in there. The O'Neals. Oh, and Buelah --
MACHANN: And I see what you meant by all the skirts being exactly the same length from the floor.
HIER: Well, Buelah was a teacher, but worked right along with us every summer.
CAMPBELL: And she was --
MACHANN: Oh, she did.
CAMPBELL: She was a teacher, let's see which one.
MACHANN: And which one was --?
CAMPBELL: Buelah's the little, the little gal [unclear].
MACHANN: I need the, what I need to do is get these copied and then I'll come up and you can tell me the names --
CAMPBELL: Of the people.
HIER: This is Buelah.
MACHANN: Ah, right here on the end?
CAMPBELL: She was a school teacher; she lived --
HIER: But she was really, Buelah was a remarkable school teacher. She, ah --
CAMPBELL: Well, she worked at Love's, but she didn't be with, ah, [pause]. You know, Dr. Love. Buelah worked for them for years, see, but Mary Cornish --. I don't, was it her dad that she worked for?
MACHANN: Charles Waldo Love?
HIER: I don't remember. I didn't --
CAMPBELL: Yeah, she was always --
HIER: Oh, no. It was Nelson Love, I think, maybe, she worked.
END TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE
HIER: -- every refrigerator, every cupboard, we would clean it from top to bottom.
MACHANN: Oh, my that must have been hard.
CAMPBELL: And she had to feed this crew. So when we cleaned it, anything that was left, she'd cook us up the best meal you ever saw.
MACHANN: Oh, oh, yes. Well, that was kind of a nice way to end the --
CAMPBELL: Well, you know to get ready to go to work. [laughter]
HIER: Ready for the weekend.
MACHANN: Oh, were they mostly open like Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, or --
HIER: Well, when they started gambling, I think they were open more.
MACHANN: Every night.
CAMPBELL: That's when we started staying.
HIER: But usually just weekends, Now, Labor, I mean Memorial Day and Fourth of July and Labor Day were big days. We expected to serve over two hundred people.
MACHANN: Wow, and these people would drive out from Denver?
HIER: From Denver.
MACHANN: Yeah, that must have been a pretty famous spot.
HIER: Well, it was, really.
MACHANN: Well, with the gambling and prohibition.
HIER: Well, even before the gambling they, wasn't it, didn't they have two hundred people --?
CAMPBELL: Well, but they was always gambling when we was up there.
MACHANN: What did he do during prohibition?
CAMPBELL: This was kind of after when I worked,wasn't it?
MACHANN: Of course, there were enough stills up there that I imagine that they kept --
CAMPBELL: Well, there is. Because see, I'd ride with Eileen, see. No, there used to be a still, and we'd go over to Norman's, Bob's cousin, see, and I --. There was a still over here, and the Norman's, they don't seem to know anything about them. I told Bob, “How dumb do they think we are?” [laughter] I know good and well that's how they made their living!
MACHANN: Well, sometimes, I imagine that was a pretty good living.
CAMPBELL: But you know, anybody that lived pretty high, you know they had another source of income, didn't they?
MACHANN: Definitely. And especially if you had lots of trees --
CAMPBELL: But Bob said, “Well I know good and well that the [unclear] from Denver had one.” And Grandma Helmer, his grandmother, when she needed sugar she'd just go down there and help herself to the big sacks [laughter] of sugar. His cousins, all they don't know anything about it [laughter]. And see they, what they, Tony Helmer was the brother to, his grandpa's name was --. Anyway they were brothers --
HIER: Was it Jim?
CAMPBELL: They lived next to one another, but they had nothing to do with one another. Tony had Roxberry Park, see, and his grandpa had that --
HIER: Was he John? Was his name John?
CAMPBELL: John Helmer. It could have been.
MACHANN: I think there is a John Helmer, yes.
CAMPBELL: Well see then, the son got it. But it's kind of falling down now. But he had these two cousins over there and we'd go and I'd bring up something kind of dumb, you know. [laughter] Oh, I'm always doing things like that. Eileen riding horses, see, Penley, she'd come and worked at Woodbine. But I went up there one summer with them, and we'd ride horses. I'm not a very good horseman, so I'd trail along and well, there used to be a still here, a still there.
MACHANN: Oh, so she knew where they --
CAMPBELL: Oh yes. She was all over. She used to ride over here to Turks Head with the roundup, see. And it seemed like the Penley's didn't go near the Helmers, see. They had a little feud going on, see.
MACHANN: Ah, well, now how did you two meet your respective husbands? At the Grange dances? [laughter]
HIER: Well, of course, I knew Archie. Went from first grade through high school with my sister, Annie. But, of course, I was the younger sister at that time. And he came to Woodbine one day with his very best friend Jim Gargon, who came up to see his girlfriend, Doris Rudolph. And, that's when Archie and I, sort of, started, got together.
MACHANN: He looked at you and he thought, she's all grown up.
HIER: I was a freshman in college --
MACHANN: Ah ha. And how did you and Bob meet?
CAMPBELL: Well, this is, see he lived in Louviers and I lived here so I knew him.
MACHANN: I know.
CAMPBELL: But during the war I went to work at DuPont. I worked at Remington and then DuPont, and when he came home I had his job in the shell house. Very nasty! [laughter] They put me in, working in the lab in the doctor's office, and, taught him to be an electrician. But we were in the shell house, with Cont Leach, you know, he was our boss, very nice and very odd. And he'd, they'd come, see, and they're going to take you to the box back there. Now, you don't have to go if you don't want to. And I said, “Well, I don't know nothing about that.” “Well, you don't have to go.” Joe Jones, see. Cont was the best boss, but he was kind of odd, you know. But no, I worked in the shell house there for two years, here when grouch come home. [laughter]
MACHANN: You weren't friends then, from the beginning?
CAMPBELL: No, and I just thought, all these gals, see, they're all going with him just for the [unclear]. Oh, I might go with him one of these nights, so, Alice and Jack and Eileen and Moose, was about ten or twelve, well Bud and Helen, we started going together the whole bunch of us. Where we went, and what we didn't do and get into.
MACHANN: Oh, there's a whole story there, I'll bet. [laughter]
CAMPBELL: Go to the Elks and Mac'd drink all afternoon, so when we'd get in there, well, so Mac passed out. Just put him behind the bar, we'll pick him up when we get ready to go [laughter]. So, it really didn't be much of a date. The whole gang just --
MACHANN: Took care of him and --
CAMPBELL: And played along.
MACHANN: Well, then after a while he decided you were okay?
CAMPBELL: Well, this is what. See, it was up on the river. We'd go up there on the weekends and Harriet, Morgan and everybody at the cabin. So, just about the whole gang and I had to get home cause I had to go up to the river. So, when I got home, well you're not going to do this again are you. “Do you want to go?” “No.” So Carlene and I went at four o'clock in the morning, we went to the river. Well you're not going to do this again. Well, you're going have to learn to go my way, too. [laughter] So, [unclear] I was up there and Mom said “Well, what are you trying do, kill yourself?” [laughter] Because I wasn't working all weekend, I was playing, see. [laughter]
MACHANN: Her wild side!
CAMPBELL: But we'd go up, you know. The whole bunch would be up there at the river, and then sometimes they'd fish, didn't they. I don't know whether the guys fished or not.
HIER: Uh huh, in the morning, real early.
CAMPBELL: The whole gang went and the little kids' fished off the rocks and --. But “Carlene,” I said, “I'll be home, take the group to the river.” Jack went with the men, so it was kind of a long weekend. [laughter]
MACHANN: With no sleep at all.
CAMPBELL: No, and I had to get a little before I went to work at [laughter] six o'clock in the morning. That was what, I'd go to DuPont at six o'clock, the men didn't go until eight, see. Because I worked in the lab in the doctor's office. And that was after we got married, see. I'd go and pack the lunches, and go to work at six o'clock and then Granddad, Bob, wouldn't come in until eight. Then I'd be home to get supper.
MACHANN: Oh, you had a full day then. Oh, I don't know how she did it. Makes me tired just hearing about it. [laughter] Well, during the Second World War then, your focus was really up in Louviers?
CAMPBELL: Well, really, I was at Remington for three years, Louise was in town.
HIER: Archie and I lived in Denver and ah --
CAMPBELL: Well, I'd come, we'd find her a place to live. I'd come home, I had a car, I called it Rebecca. So I had transportation.
MACHANN: What kind of a car was Rebecca?
HIER: She was a four-door Chevrolet. [laughter]
CAMPBELL: Had to find her a place to live, Heb was working at--
HIER: Crane-O'Fallon.
CAMPBELL: Fallon's oh, since that'd be settled. Well, the next day, Heb, well, we're not living in that hole. So, we'd have to go back and find her another place to live.
HIER: We moved ten times in the first year we were married. [laughter]
CAMPBELL: Every time we turned around, see, I'd have to --
MACHANN: She moved you ten times in the first year --
HIER: Well, Florence was so good to help me and it got to the point, I'd just say to Florence, “Well I guess we moving,” and she'd come in and we'd be moved before Arch got back from work the next, that night. As Jim Gargon would say, “Well, am I supposed to tell you where you moved to today, or where you're living tonight?”
CAMPBELL: Well, and this was during the war, see, when we got our job into Remington. We found out that if you told them you worked at Woodbine you could get in on the cafeteria deal. So when you got in on the cafeteria deal, then you'd tell them you wanted to shift over to the factory. So all of Woodbine, they just hired us, they'd hire anybody that worked at Woodbine.
MACHANN: Oh, well, hey, that's a good reference, then.
CAMPBELL: And so we'd go into the factory and we went and, see, Irene was there and Alice and Ullery.
HIER: And Alice Ullery and Virginia, wasn't there was she?
CAMPBELL: Yes, that was before her and Willie got married. She was out there at Remington, but see, we started to working and it started to snow. We got in there and I was driving Annie's car, “the blue goose” then the new Chev [Chevrolet]. And I couldn't get up the hill, so some good samaritan had to push us up the hill to get out to Sixth Avenue.
MACHANN: Oh, yes. Because that was about Sixth and, what was it, about Wadsworth or something out west.
CAMPBELL: Yeah, clear out there on Alameda and Wadsworth. And, so then Alice she was in production, I was in production and she was in inspection. She had Willie's car so she said, “Well, we'll go, travel together since there were the two of us.” So we go in two cars and the first one gets stuck, then we'd push it out and get the other one a going and we got down and Eileen and [pause]. Who was Eileen living with? Irene Gentry clear down on Alameda, they had a room. So we, Eileen was graveyard and Alice and I was days and whatch-a-ma-call-it was swing. So we had one bed, we went round, so one'd get up and go to work and the other. Alice and I left the one vehicle so we only had one to push. And we stayed in and then Christmas day, they must, you must of moved just before Christmas? So, Christmas day we pushed out everything, and got out here. Then that's, I moved in with them on Thirty-eighth. Her and Ed had moved to Thirty-eighth, but I didn't have to move them there, so I moved in with them. [laughter]
HIER: And then Alice stayed with us too.
CAMPBELL: Yeah, and Alice, yeah. No. That was before Virginia and Willie got married. And Virginia, she was a card. She decided, see Willie, Alice was driving Willie's car, just might like to meet him. So that's when she ended up marrying Willie. But, no, it was quite the deal out there. [clock chimes] But they would drive from Sedalia, but I stayed in town. I was going come home, but otherwise I stayed in town and just came out on --. Well, Louise and them come out on weekends, and lot of times you'd work one week of days and the next week of swing and the next week of graveyard.
MACHANN: Night, yes.
CAMPBELL: So, graveyard didn't do nothing but sleep and eat.
MACHANN: Well, I don't know. That was probably the only time you had a chance to catch up on your sleep.
CAMPBELL: But the odd, you'd asked me about Manhart's yard down here. They had it beautiful, rock wall and everything. And we got in there and, of all the people, Shorty was in production with us. He was the gardener, he's the one that did it.
MACHANN: Oh, he is!
CAMPBELL: Yeah, when we come to find out and, so poor you'd buy something at the cafeteria, boy, you'd get tired of eating at the cafeteria. You'd didn't want to eat it, give it to Shorty he'd eat it.
MACHANN: Oh, he was probably working hard enough --
CAMPBELL: We didn't throw anything away. He was a great big guy. But then, see, then the guys had to start going to the service from, you know, and --
MACHANN: Oh, definitely, yes.
CAMPBELL: And then we --. Well see, I run machines and everything there until after the war, until it was about over and then that's when I come out, ended up going to Louviers.
MACHANN: So that was, boy, those were interesting times then. Well, when the war was over and everybody came home, then you had to fight to keep your job.
CAMPBELL: Yes, well. That was the whole deal, see. I'd come home on the bus to get, you know --
MACHANN: Well, in that day and age women didn't work.
HIER: No, no.
MACHANN: Before the second world war.
CAMPBELL: And then, see, we had our stamps, our ration, gas and shoes and everything.
HIER: Shoes and food and everything.
MACHANN: Oh, even bananas, and things like that.
HIER: Yes.
CAMPBELL: Sugar, work and Annie was working at the Brown Palace. She'd work part time at Remington, down to the Brown Palace, and I'd come home. Well, where's Louise? Well, they took her to the hospital. So, I got --
HIER: Expecting Jim, see.
CAMPBELL: Jim. Well, clean up, and we'll go. Here she set, she'd set all day. [laughter] Well, I said, “Heb'll be there and he won't have any money and he won't have any cigarettes.”
MACHANN: And he won't have eaten anything, probably.
CAMPBELL: Yeah, so she set. We got ready and went. Well how're we going to find him? Well, we'll find him. And as we was walking up the walk, poor Arch was a prancing out on the balcony and he saw us, see, so he knew that.
MACHANN: That they were on their way.
CAMPBELL: Annie was a big help, I'll swear, come in and I was working graveyard, come in to pick cherries. Mom and Louise and Jim, the baby. So Annie left her to take care of the baby. So what'd she do, just set and watch him all day. Didn't do the dishes or nothing and here I was working graveyard.
MACHANN: Had to go home and do dirty dishes.
CAMPBELL: Well they was there, I might not even washed them that day. But this is the way, and then she ended up with five kids but she didn't know how to --
HIER: Eight kids.
CAMPBELL: how to watch him, because he slept. But we'd come home on swing and get Jim up and all, he was cute. We'd dry him up and play with him and everything. The third week Bobbie said, Louise said, now there'll be no more of that [laughter] eleven o'clock at night and you guys not here and I'm not, because he [unclear] played with him a while and put him back to bed and he was good but he wanted to do it the next week and the next week.
MACHANN: Oh, of course, and they weren't there. [laughter] That's a dirty trick.
CAMPBELL: Ah, but he was a cute little thing.
HIER: Archie and our, my courtship was mostly correspondence.
MACHANN: Oh, because he was --
HIER: He was, well he, after we got together at Woodbine, he came home to go to, he would work a year then he'd come home and go to Mines [Colorado School of Mines] for a year. And he was going to Mines that year and --
MACHANN: Golden's a little too far to be courting.
HIER: Well, and after he, well from Mines, he had to go back to work and they sent him to South America for two years.
MACHANN: Oh, wow, that was a long trip in those days.
HIER: He went to, he was working with Tommy Manhart, they were seismographing for oil. And, that's the way he would make his money to go to school. Then he'd come home and go to school for a year, and then he'd go back and work with Tommy. And Tommy sent him to South America. He said that I told Archie he wanted to send him and Arch said, “Well, there's a lot better drillers and men than I am to go down South America.” He said, “It isn't that.” He said, “Those guys haven't had a card game in three months and they're at each others throats, you gotta go down.” So Arch said, “Am I going down to play cards or [unclear]? “You're going to do both,” he said. So he went to South America for two years.
CAMPBELL: Louise was teaching in Greenland for --
HIER: You know there was this county school on the El Paso/Douglas County line up by the uh --
CAMPBELL: Greenland.
HIER: Well, yeah, was up by --
MACHANN: Is that that Spring Valley School?
HIER: No, it was the road that went from, ah, Monument across and it had joined, it went to Spring Valley, but it was the school, it was just a little bit, it was east of, of I-25 now on that county line road. The school house was in El Paso County but the district was --
MACHANN: Was still Douglas County.
HIER: And Tommy Johnston was on the school board from Douglas County and, ah, that was just a little school there. And it burned down, well I taught for six months and got married and then I quit school. [laughter]
CAMPBELL: But she'd have to go Colorado Springs to see that deal [unclear] taught under both counties.
HIER: Go to the library in Colorado Springs and --
MACHANN: And that's a long drive down there.
HIER: And Rebecca took me [laughter].
MACHANN: Oh, good. Well, now, do you have any pictures of Rebecca? I'd like to see the, who was it, the Blue Goose, and Rebecca.
CAMPBELL: Well that was Annie, she got --
HIER: Annie got a blue Chevrolet and it was --
MACHANN: The blue goose.
HIER: --fancy, it was a new one, see, they called it the Blue Goose.
CAMPBELL: I went to Arizona with her and made her save her money and when we got back she had enough money to buy this new Chevrolet. So then I ended up payin', I don't think I got a picture of the Blue Goose, Rebecca.
HIER: We'll have to look around, cause I'm sure, in some of our pictures, we've got a picture.
CAMPBELL: But Annie drove mine one day, and lost the wheel, Rebecca. Some guy come along and said well couldn't you feel like somethin' was gone? No, well you run the wheels off and it don't make any difference to her she didn't [laughter] -- And then she'd get the job bein' the hostess, see, had to dress real nice. Louise and I, we wore uniforms or somethin' and made the money but she spent the money. But I made most of her clothes.
MACHANN: Well, that sounds like --
CAMPBELL: But she'd go to Arizona, I did make it to Roswell, didn't I?
HIER: She worked at the Wigwam in Arizona, which was the big --
MACHANN: Oh, that's a big --
HIER: --resort in Arizona. Annie would go there every winter and work. In fact, they have pictures of some of the original help at the Wigwam, so her picture is --
MACHANN: Is there.
HIER: --is there. She and the Goodyear company is who had it. And people, they flew in people from --
MACHANN: From all over.
HIER: --from the east, mostly. She took Florence down there to babysit these people's children.
CAMPBELL: From Pennsylvania and that's where I made her save her money, when she come home she had enough --
MACHANN: She had enough for a car.
CAMPBELL: I'd just take the money and send it home and put it in the bank for her, so she had enough to make a payment when we got --
MACHANN: During the flood of [19]65, Albert Manhart lost his house and the church and the Grange Hall and --
CAMPBELL: Allis's.
MACHANN: Allis's and who else lost the house?
CAMPBELL: Well, Mr. Elgarth, the house that Mr. Elgarth lived in, they lost, that house is gone. And, ah, Lois Crook --
MACHANN: Lois Crook, where did she live down there?
HIER: Well, she didn't live, she didn't get, she didn't lose her house but she lived right down the lane from Manhart's, you know, the fartherest house --
MACHANN: This side of Manhart's?
HIER: No, across 80 and 67, you know that road goes, she lived in the last house on the lane.
CAMPBELL: Well, Bill built it up, Bill Overman.
HIER: Bill Overman --
CAMPBELL: It's that log house back up there, that's where she lived.
MACHANN: Oh, okay, sort of back behind what used to be Grub's.
HIER: But Frank Nelson lost his house and the Manse, you know?
MACHANN: I know the Manse, but Frank Nelson lost a house too?
CAMPBELL: A big house a floatin' out there.
HIER: That two-story house.
MACHANN: Oh, this one or this one?
CAMPBELL: He was out there.
HIER: The upper story, it just took, the upper story floated, this bottom --
CAMPBELL: No, see that's his garage, see, and that's when the church blew up.
MACHANN: Yes, I remember standing on the hill seeing that, but I didn't think about having a camera.
CAMPBELL: See, that's his house there, goin' down --
MACHANN: Oh, wow what neat pictures.
CAMPBELL: See this is the other house.
HIER: See that -- upper house of Franks came out here to this field -- next to us--
CAMPBELL: Right out from our place.
HIER: -- the next to us, not this field but the field next to us. And, some man that lived at your place came up and said there's somebody calling from that house. So Chet and Tommy and Jim Hier tied ropes to each, tied ropes to their waist and they waded out there. And, ah, they got out and opened the door and Frank said, “Well come on in, it's dry in here”. He had gone, he decided he couldn't outrun the flood so he'd gone home and ran, and gone upstairs. And it just carried the bottom part of his house was gone but the upper story floated.
MACHANN: Oh, my goodness.
HIER: And so they helped him out of the house.
CAMPBELL: Well, they just about had to carry him out.
HIER: Yeah
MACHANN: Oh, I was goin' to say because that went down the creek and he wouln't have been--
CAMPBELL: No, it was out there in the middle of the field.
MACHANN: Oh, just the top part.
HIER: Just the top part.
CAMPBELL: And Frank said to Thurman and Bob one day, they was on the fire department, would you burn that thing down? I'm sick and tired of lookin' at it, makes me sick! So they got some gasoline and burned it down. Here come Billy with his guns, “What are you doin'?” The man wants it destroyed, so we're destroying it. And he just, they was ready to fight him, and he was ready to fight them. But Frank said it just makes me sick to just look at it. So they just burned it down there.
MACHANN: But you know that top floor must have been really well built. You know for that to be dry inside.
HIER: Well the house, yes, the house, itself probably was pretty well-built. But it just took the lower level and ah, because that was an old house, and Lapham, it was the Laphman house.
MACHANN: Oh, oh it was?
HIER: And the next morning Archie saw Frank uptown with bundle under his arm and he said “Well Frank how are you this morning?” Frank said, well I'm pretty good, and he said well what are you doin' and he said well this is my worldly possessions.
MACHANN: Yes [laughter].
HIER: Frank had a, you know, he was sort of, he had quite a sense of humor.
MACHANN: And he had 'em all tucked under one arm.
HIER: This is my worldly possessions.
CAMPBELL: Well see, his mother and dad lived there, that's how come Frank was livin' there, wasn't it. Gus and Mrs. Nelson lived there. Cause during the war we'd go there to get Frank and she'd say “Frank no go to work today.” So, we'd tell the boss no, Ellie said if they ever get them onions harvested maybe we'll get a crew.
MACHANN: Oh, [laughter] they had onions planted.
CAMPBELL: Elwood, Lou and Frank Nelson, we had two or three that was just --
HIER: Frank had a problem with the bottle --
CAMPBELL: And Elwood [unclear] was just the same, but this guy, he was from the east and if we ever get them ONIONS, we'll have a crew. But then Brownie down to the Hellsville, he called it, he wasn't very good help either.
MACHANN: Well, you know, some of Albert's rugs ended up down here in what used to be Nelson's or --
HIER: Yeah, I had it in my dining room.
MACHANN: Oh, did you when they dried, I always wondered what did they do with it.
HIER: It was in the dining room, I had it until we changed, then Bruce took it. I didn't know what, what, Tony said what are you goin' to do with this, and I said, it's an Oriental rug and it's a good rug --
MACHANN: Oh, and it was beautiful.
HIER: -- but it was beginning to wear. And Bruce said well I'll take it. So Bruce took it.
MACHANN: How did they every get the sand out of it?
HIER: I don't know, well you know, I would vacuum it real good all, every week, and when I'd move it around, there'd be silt like underneath it.
MACHANN: The little lines --
HIER: Well, you know, that soft silt, that soft dirt that's just almost --
MACHANN: Right, so fine that you could hardly see it.
HIER: But they really did a pretty good job of cleaning it because it always looked nice, it always did look nice.
MACHANN: Well, and she always had such wonderful treasures, the cut glass -- And I don't imagine any of that --
HIER: I have the, the kids went down, the day after the flood and they found a pitcher –I'll show it to you when we go down--
MACHANN: That survived?
HIER: -- downstairs, it's a Japanese pitcher, pitcher, and I found a cut glass, they found a cut glass, ah, wine decanter but the top is broken but I still have it.
MACHANN: Oh my, I didn't think she, I figured --
HIER: She had all that beautiful crystal.
MACHANN: Cause the building just sort of imploded, didn't it?
HIER: Uh-huh, well for years we'd walk up and down the fields and pick up shards of, ah --
MACHANN: -- of glass.
HIER: -- of glass, of china and glass.
MACHANN: Well, and some day, some kid is goin', remember Albert's sword?
HIER: Albert who?
MACHANN: Albert Manhart had a sword, it was from some sort of fraternal organization, and I remember --
CAMPBELL: The Mason's.
HIER: It was a Mason's.
MACHANN: Oh, was it the Mason's, I remember him showing me the sword and I figured if anythings going to survive it's going to be that sword. And some kids going find that sword and be thrilled to pieces. [laughter] I don't know whether, it may of rusted by now, cause that's been a good number of years ago.
HIER: And, well, who was it that found his, your dad found his jacket hanging on this fence with his billfold in it.
MACHANN: Yes, uh-huh, yes. Well, boy those were times.
HIER: Your dad dug the rug up, didn't he?
MACHANN: Yeah, yeah, that was a job, cause boy that was heavy, soaked with water.
HIER: Well, I bet it was.
MACHANN: But, he worked at it just a little bit at a time and finally got it out, cause you know, he's a rug man.
HIER: Uh-huh, yes.
MACHANN: Well, when did the creamery, ah, close, because, now, your folks used to take milk over to the creamery.
HIER: Uh-huh, yes, my folks, my grandparents, sold, my the, my the land too, that sold their land to the creamery.
MACHANN: Oh, to the creamery.
HIER: And it was Frinks' creamery, you know. First it was Joseph, what was it, it was Joseph somebody else and then the Frinks were the last ones to have it. But the, I have it in the family records who bought the creamery, who opened up the creamery. And my, it was part of the Beeman Ranch.
MACHANN: Oh, so that part on this side of creek.
CAMPBELL: The church and the grange hall and all of that.
HIER: The grange and the church and all of that was the Beeman's.
MACHANN: Oh, it was, I didn't realize the church property was the Beeman property too.
HIER: Oh yes, grandma gave that to the church.
MACHANN: Well, that was, you know, that was such a beautiful church.
HIER: Yes, it was.
MACHANN: And, I have seen pictures, I have never seen one before the flood you know of the church, but there's a church that looks just like it over in Parker.
HIER: Oh, yes.
MACHANN: They must of made the churches just about the same --
HIER: The same way.
MACHANN: The same period of time.
HIER: You see their property was this fence down here, and then they owned that across the street from Manharts,
MACHANN: Where the --
HIER: Where that new house is now, they owned that part of the land too. That was part of the Beeman place.
MACHANN: And then wasn't Mrs. Scott's --
HIER: Ah, Laura Scott?
CAMPBELL: That was Victors.
HIER: That was Victors, Mr. Victor--
MACHANN: Oh, Marques Victor, okay.
HIER: But it was just a little place on top of the hill. But my grandparents owned where Allis's lived. That was where the creamery was.
MACHANN: Right, yes.
HIER: And then the grange hall.
MACHANN: Did anybody every take any pictures of the creamery when it was --
HIER: You know, I don't know that I have every seen any pictures of the creamery.
CAMPBELL: Well, I've seen one, just a little bit you can hardly tell what it is --
MACHANN: Well, I've got two of the interior but I don't have any of the exterior.
HIER: Oh, have you?
MACHANN: But they're very dark. I could run you some copies of those if you'd be interested.
HIER: I wonder if the Frinks might have some pictures.
MACHANN: I don't know, I contacted her and ah I hope everything is all right there because I had, ah, sent her a copy of the cemetery records and didn't hear a word from her because I was hoping she would --
HIER: Oh really!
MACHANN: -- share some of her family history with the historical group. But I have not heard from her.
HIER: Well, now is that Mrs. Gene Frink?
MACHANN: No, that's the one who does the license plates. She gave me the, ah, address for her and I have not heard from her, so.
CAMPBELL: Here's that address she wants.
HIER: That's Martha Manhart's address.
MACHANN: Oh, wonderful, okay, I will --
HIER: I'll give you a copy, I'll get a paper for you to copy.
MACHANN: Okay, Martha Manhart, is that Grimes?
HIER: Grimmer, I think it's Grimmer.
MACHANN: Okay, I've got a piece of paper right here, and I'll write that down, because, surely somebody must have a picture of the old Manhart house.
HIER: Well, I'm sure [unclear] Tommy, it has to be from Tommy's family but when Tommy, when they brought Tommy's ashes up I was visiting with the Pat Manhart, who's father was Art. And I was at, trying to get information, you know, about the “Different Drummer” and Pat said we'd lost our historian in the family because Tommy --
MACHANN: Oh, Tommy was the one.
HIER: -- one that kept, ah, so maybe Martha, maybe Martha [unclear] she and her dad might have gotten together on --
MACHANN: Yes, well or she might have some of those, ah, records that she could look through and, now mom was telling me that when Edna and ah, oh what was his name?
HIER: Albert?
MACHANN: [unclear] Allis Edna.
HIER: Allis. Oh, yeah.
CAMPBELL: George.
HIER: George.
MACHANN: George, yes, ah after their place flooded they went to the folks place to stay, and mom said that afterwards some of the neighbors got together and found pictures of their house and gave them to them. You know, sort of as a remembrance. So I've been trying to get hold of Earl to see what, you know, if he still has a copy of that.
HIER: I bet Gertrude All--, Gertrude Duncan probably had some pictures of there, because Billy and Earl were really good friends, you know, when they were little.
MACHANN: It could be, but you know, Dr. Duncan didn't get to take any of those with him.
HIER: Oh, he didn't --
MACHANN: And Bill's not --
CAMPBELL: Bill is Bill.
MACHANN: Yes, he is!
CAMPBELL: But that's what they thought when Bill [unclear]and they was bein' a good samaritan for Franks and him bein' such a stinker, they was ready to throw him in, they had to wade down a little water, it was safe to burn it, because --
MACHANN: Oh, it was surrounded still by enough dampness.
CAMPBELL: Yeah, well the creek was still a goin' but poor old Frank, you know, did you burn that down, why sure, yes, gladly.
MACHANN: The fire department loves [unclear]--
CAMPBELL: Buy us some beer and we'll do it.
MACHANN: Right, well I hope you are going to be able to get up for the July Fourth dedication and the grand opening and all --
HIER: Well, I am going to tell Jack and Louise because they were most [unclear]--
CAMPBELL: Yeah, Sis says now Don you've got to home for that.
MACHANN: Oh, definitely, yes.
CAMPBELL: This one, is that after the road was in? See I've got to get her to get me some dates. See how much the school “growed” there from the time I was a first grader.
MACHANN: They put an addition on it, yes.
CAMPBELL: Well, but we had that when I was in the first grade. But this is a year later because I think that's me, my hair, they always called me Fuzz, well I can see why, it never laid down. But I kind of think even Jack was in this one, see, it was after the road went in, maybe in [19]24.
MACHANN: Oh, oh, yes because there was, goodness sakes that's a lot of kids in that school.
CAMPBELL: Yeah, and before, this one that I had of Dolly, see and George and them, it was not very many --
HIER: Oh, there's Jack, there's Jack, there we are.
CAMPBELL: In first grade, see, this is, when they put the road through, that's when our school “growed”.
HIER: Archie and Al, Allen and Annie would be in there too.
CAMPBELL: The Tabors moved in and everybody moved in --
MACHANN: What I need to do is get a big one and see how many names you can come up with.
CAMPBELL: Well, this is what I've got to take, this one up to --
HIER: We've got to get this blown up, too.
CAMPBELL: Well, that's what I was lookin' the other day when I, but see Jim's mother is so much bigger, the one that's [unclear] the school, see. That's when I was in the first grade.
MACHANN: Well, I'll tell you right now Walgreen's has a special for $4.99 on that machine that just copies them.
HIER: Oh really.
MACHANN: So, if you want me to I'll take that in and get that blown up for you.
CAMPBELL: Well, see, I take it up to Walg, up to Walgreen's and play dumb and [laughter].
MACHANN: Oh, I do too, I always have to have them do it.
CAMPBELL: Well, I said if you'd help me -- poor Bobby took and [unclear] --
HIER: Do you go to King Soopers --
CAMPBELL: I go to Wal-mart, but see --
MACHANN: Wal-mart? Well they charge $6.99, don't they?
CAMPBELL: But see, I play dumb, I got mine for five [dollars].
MACHANN: Oh, good.
CAMPBELL: And Bobbie --
MACHANN: That's a good price.
CAMPBELL: --she done hers and she had to pay eleven [dollars], but see that' s of the cabin.
MACHANN: Right, we are going down to the Denver Public Library tomorrow and we are goin' try to get some history of this Calvary group. Because somebody told John that Black Jack Pershing was part of this Calvary group. And I argued with him and said I don't think so, so tomorrow we'll find out.
CAMPBELL: Well, they came through every year, though, they came after we, they camped up in Tweet's field the last I can remember, see.
HIER: Because the stockyards were gone by then, but when the stockyards were here I can remember they came every year.
MACHANN: Oh, those are great pictures.
HIER: They were, we were threatened with our life if we even went near there. [laughter]
MACHANN: Oh, oh yes those military men.
HIER: You don't go over there and bother those people.
CAMPBELL: And that barn over there, that's the Beeman barn. And on the back it's wrote, see how that, in nineteen, on the back, [unclear] see that's the gal that did it was seventy-five years old.
MACHANN: Oh, yes, and that was July twenty-fourth, 1906.
CAMPBELL: Yeah, that's what they wrote on there, see, but we got two or three others and they come through every year.
MACHANN: Oh, that's really, those are neat pictures. Ah, I have interviewed Stan Thompson and he remembers a really bad snow storm, he thinks it was in like 1930, early [19]30's, and he said he could walk straight across the fence posts that are shown in this picture to the school. That there was drifts of snow --
CAMPBELL: Well there was several of 'em that way. But it was during the war when I worked down at Dupont that we was snowed in with just trails around here. See, after [19]42.
MACHANN: Right, well and I can remember, early [19]50's having drifts that were bigger than my head, you know when the wind blows and the --
CAMPBELL: See there, that two-window house, that's my house in there.
MACHANN: Oh, it is!
CAMPBELL: That's how old the house is, well on the tax deal, did you get one, they've got it down, the house is bought, should of put -- it was there in 1906, but it's there in that picture.
MACHANN: Well and I hope your's didn't go up as much as mine did. And I can never figure out what they're gonna charge me next year.
CAMPBELL: Got up yesterday morning and granddad was having a fit! Well we can't pay this, they've went up so much, so I don't know.
MACHANN: Well, I --
CAMPBELL: I haven't been botherin' you, I thought if you [unclear] and you go through what I have this last month.
MACHANN: I have, yes he has been such a grouch!
CAMPBELL: Well, wait 'til he gets it done, you've got another month of it. [laughter]
MACHANN: I can hardly wait.
HIER: Have you ever seen this article about Arch, Art had a broken leg.
CAMPBELL: No, I don't think so. Could I have a copy?
MACHANN: Of course.
CAMPBELL: Can I get a copy.
MACHANN: I'll make you a copy.
CAMPBELL: I've got a copy machine.
MACHANN: Oh, you've got a copy machine, yes make a couple copies.
CAMPBELL: I would love to, you know, have that.
MACHANN: Yes, and there are some duplicate copies of Marguerite, I'm sure you've got that.
CAMPBELL: Yes, I have all these of George and Marguerite.
MACHANN: But, no, be sure and run a copy of that because we had come across--
CAMPBELL: Flood, numbered on the back, you can tell that water came, it isn't the same one, how deep it got.
MACHANN: Well, may I take these?
CAMPBELL: Yeah, you can have that one.
MACHANN: Oh, that would be great and I'll run some copies.
CAMPBELL: See, she'd got 'em numbered to, she just set out there and took it as it --
MACHANN: I'm so glad she did, yes, I'm a little, but wasn't there, we all voted last year on this bill that if you've lived in the same house for ten years and you're over sixty-five you get half the taxes, I think we really need to check into this because none of us are going to survive if these taxes keep goin up the way --
CAMPBELL: Well this was what Jim Price was a yellin' about, did you see, you get yours?
HIER: Yeah, mine's gone up, the post office, it's [laughter] I can't believe it because you know the post office is high enough as it is, there are [unclear] pay as much as Gabriel pays for the whole place.
MACHANN: You're kidding, so much smaller and, I don't know how they figure that, I really don't. But --
HIER: The last time we protested, Gabriel paid less than Thurmond and I did --
MACHANN: Oh, that's not right. Now, I got my tax notice and I said John, look how much this has gone up, can you figure out how much we are gonna owe next year, and he said I wouldn't have a clue. Because they don't tell you --
CAMPBELL: Well, this is for, I don't where Bob or [unclear] but I got up and he was fit to be tied. Get a hold of [unclear] before he leaves, he's the one that took it the last time, but as I say that's my house there in that 1906 and they've got it on the tax deal that it's that old.
MACHANN: So, I wouldn't think that they'd being charging as much as they do.
CAMPBELL: Well, that's right, thousands of dollars.
MACHANN: Well, and we can't compete with these people who move in and then build these huge homes.
HIER: No -- I don't think they pay it!
MACHANN: Well, I don't know, they moved us. We haven't moved our house, but they have us in a tax bracket with people from, well there's one from Madge Gulch and there's one from down there on Wolfensberger Hill, I don't know --
HIER: Really!
MACHANN: I don't know what in the world they've done, but they've put us in a different district. And there's twelve houses and John and I got in the car and we drove around, we looked at all these houses, some of 'em have got security gates, some of 'em have got these gorgeous views of the mountains, and I've got my black mountain out there that's just wonderful [laughter] and, ah, but we protested last year, and they have been charging us for twenty years for a barn that was three times as big as the one we got.
HIER: Oh, no.
MACHANN: But they don't refund any money.
HIER: Oh, they don't!
MACHANN: Oh, of course not. Well, you know, Gary Sudden down here was paying taxes on property for something like twenty-five years when his dad owned that property and when they sold the property Gary went down and he said, “wait a minute, you just sold my property”. And they said no we didn't this belongs to so and so, and he says wait a minute I've been paying taxes on that for twenty-five or thirty years. Never got a penny back!
CAMPBELL: [unclear] The stream place, I'll bet ya, see the stream place came through there.
MACHANN: So, he was not a happy camper, either.
HIER: Well, I don't think so.
CAMPBELL: Well this is what [unclear] as soonas I say you get prepared, you won't want any history stuff going for [unclear] he says, the doctor when we went, when your six weeks are up, and the x-rays, everything is all right, so it's all right so he don't have that to complain about but he --
MACHANN: Well, if your's is like mine , he can always find something to complain about.
CAMPBELL: Well, this was Bob, I told Bob yesterday he was a burger and he's not much better today.
MACHANN: Well, I think it gets to be a habit and [laughter]--
CAMPBELL: Well, somethin' to bitch about, but what I mean now, after six weeks you know the knee is all right and he just knew there was somethin' wrong see, but when he, when we went and it was all right, so.
MACHANN: Well, quite frankly, I'm using the historian stuff to get out of the house. [laughter], so I'm kinda hoping --
CAMPBELL: You leave and then you never know what's goin' stir up.
MACHANN: Well, that's why I figure if I can keep myself busy and escape every once in awhile.
CAMPBELL: Well, really it does help but --
HIER: Now she got you a copy of that, I think --
MACHANN: Oh, that's wonderful, that's the Sedalia post office.
CAMPBELL: That's the ones that, see, we've had several since then.
MACHANN: Okay, now Henry Clay, ah, Johanna Harden from the library sent me some information on the first library, er, the first post office. Remember that place they just tore down up there by Louviers?
HIER: Gann, you mean?
MACHANN: Yeah, that old property on the right-hand side as you go in and just the --
CAMPBELL: Yeah, it ah Johns'.
MACHANN: That's the place, she said that was actually the first post office and then he used to bring the mail, evidently, down here to distribute it until the railroad went through, or I don't how they, I've got to go back and research that because I don't understand exactly how that worked. Because Gladys Davis had a post office in her house, didn't she?
CAMPBELL: Now that was Gann's, isn't there a Gann in --
END OF INTERVIEW