Speaking to the Future:
Louise Beeman Hier and Florence Campbell Beeman
Oral history interview with
Louise Beeman Hier and Florence Campbell Beeman
Interview Conducted on Septermber 19, 2001, recorded in Sedalia, Colorado. 2001.037
Sedalia Historic Fire House Museum Oral History Project
[Interview conducted] by Barbara Machann and Mary Douglas "Douggie" Young
Transcribed by Pamela Catlin
Original transcript on deposit at Douglas County History Research Center, Douglas County Libraries, Castle Rock, CO.
Note: The transcript of this oral history is as accurate as possible. All text in brackets is not part of the oral history. It has been added for clarification purposes.
Mary Cornish appears late in the transcript.
MACHANN:-- something else, in fact [unclear].
CAMPBELL: -- see that's Mrs. Manhart, that's what she gave us kids for Christmas [unclear].
HIER: -- and every spring we had --would go to the high school in Castle Rock [unclear].
MACHANN: Do you know they have still have this drum down at the historic preservation board, and when, if we do a display on the band, oh this is wonderful.
CAMPBELL: And we can name every one, you thought that was Donny [unclear].
MACHANN: Oh, and you've got them written down [unclear].
MARY CORNISH: Oh, that's ah, that's perfect.
MACHANN: Oh, what a treasure! Oh, that is wonderful.
HIER: And that is, Mrs. Manhart gave it, gave all of us one of these for Christmas [unclear]. Florence got [unclear]--
MACHANN: Now, this is Mrs. Manhart, right here?
CAMPBELL: Mrs. Manhart and that was the music teacher, Mr. Brower. He was the one, a neat man and he died the next year. [unclear]
CAMPBELL: -- Mr Patterson, we used to have a vegetable man came by and he was a neighbor of Mr. Brower's, Pat was, and it was two or three years later but it's the first band we ever had [unclear].
MACHANN:Oh, I think that's wonderful and that big drum, what did you play?
CAMPBELL:Clarinet, I didn't play well.
CORNISH: And what did you play?
HIER: "C" saxophone, which they don't even make anymore [laughter].
MACHANN:Really, yes, but do you know that Kent Brandeberry has a band that plays nothing, the music printed before WWI and he's got all the old instruments, and he probably has a "C" saxophone.
HIER: My mother had it for years, I don't know what ever happened to it.
CAMPBELL:Well, that's I don't know, it was up in the closet [unclear] Jack took --
MACHANN:That is just wonderful, yes if we could make a copy of that and Douggie can write down all the names and we'll get those on there, because this what she did with, ah, the one picture and she's got all the names and I want to have you check to make sure we've got them right.
CAMPBELL:This is Aunt Sally and this is Jim Price, [unclear] Beeman family in - I've got one that, you wanted to know about them all.
MACHANN:Oh yes!
CAMPBELL:Charlie and Walt and daddy, I've got one of them.
MACHANN:Oh, well, you know I'll be knocking on your door, of course.
CAMPBELL:Well Jim Price [unclear] --
MACHANN: And I know who that is, [laughter] she looks like she is dressed up to go to a dance, doesn't she?
CAMPBELL: Oh, I was -- graduation, eighth grade graduation.
HIER: Graduation, eighth grade graduation.
MACHANN: Well, and remember way back when, when I came and interviewed you two way back in May, finally have the oral history done for you to read and if there's any corrections, make the corrections and then I'll need you to sign [unclear] you know, so that the library can get a copy, because they like to have it very formal and make sure that we're legal when we take something like that [unclear] And, you'll notice in your interview here you mentioned a couple of things that I probably goin' to be haunting you for as well, because you talked about your mom having an invitation to the Thanksgiving Ball, have you every come across that? We'd love to have a copy of that.
HIER: I know where it is. I, it's in the closet where you open the door of the closet [unclear] [laughter]
MACHANN: I've got a closet like that. [unclear]
HIER: -- open that closet door and every time you opened it you got the whole folding door in your hand. [laughter] I know where it is.
MACHANN: She don't want to get in there.
HIER: I can get in there, I've got so I can put the closet door back [laughter].
HIER: -- took me quite awhile to learn how to do it but --
MACHANN: Oh, that's neat. And, we were wondering if, while we have you trapped up here, it you would go through some of these pictures --
HIER: -- get a fly swatter here in a minute.
MACHANN: Yes, I was thinking the same thing, get him as he goes by. We were wondering on some of these early pictures of Sedalia, you know, some of these, it's remarkable to have this many pictures that look like it was the same time period and you have mentioned in an interview that there was Mr. Eck or was it Mr. Eck, was a friend of your grandfather's, was that his first name or --
HIER: Aunt Annie's, was her husband.
MACHANN: Oh, it was her husband, oh.
HIER: Eck Shepard.
MACHANN: Oh, Shepard, okay, Eck Shepard, got a find a pen here real quick.
HIER: He was the one that made the tintype, he taught mother how to make a tintype.
MACHANN: Well, did he take those early pictures of Sedalia?
HIER: No, I don't think so because he was from Denver, and ah [unclear] --
CORNISH: Here I'll trade you back, there's yours.
HIER: I don't know he left the country before then didn't he?
CAMPBELL: Eck?
HIER: Eck Shepard, he left when Sally was a baby.
CAMPBELL: Oh it was him not Eck, [unclear] Annie's husband [unclear] --
HIER: No, that was her second husband, she married him years later in California.
CAMPBELL: Well ah, mom used to call him.
HIER: Eck Shepard was Sally's dad -- and that's where the Indian, he was part Indian and that's why Sally [unclear] high cheek bones [unclear] --
CAMPBELL: Well, she does look Indian --
MACHANN: But you know [unclear] when I typed this up I wondered if he's the gentleman that took so many of these early pictures.
HIER: You know, I don't know who did, ah, he could have taken some but he lived in Denver and he only came out when they came from Denver.
MACHANN: So he really didn't bring his camera with him.
HIER: Oh, in fact my mother wasn't even married, I think he might of, he showed her how to make that tintype, he showed her how to do that but he left soon after that and she, I think he was gone before [unclear] --
MACHANN: So she was just a new bride?
HIER: Uh-huh, well she grew up with them in Denver, her Aunt Sally raised her until her dad remarried and --
CAMPBELL: See that's Aunt Mary and Aunt Sally and Annie --
HIER: And these two are more like sisters --
CORNISH: Are those labeled there? [unclear]
MACHANN: Well I think we've got all these right [sound of swatting fly]. Hey, I think you got him [laughter]
HIER: Birch [sp?] my great-grandson says to me --
CAMPBELL: Grandma, you kill bees too! [laughter]
MACHANN: You get whatever 'a hold still long enough. [unclear] Now I wasn't sure on this, so I wanted to double check, I've got Harriet, Annie, Florence, Louise, and Jack.
HIER: Uh-huh.
MACHANN: So that one's correct.
HIER: That was the day our dad[unclear] --
CAMPBELL: Well he wasn't, see, Annie was in bed when daddy got sick.
HIER: Well she was sick after he was but that was the day he went to bed sick.
CAMPBELL: But Jim said whose "rag-bag" was you playin' in? [laughter] [unclear] -- playin' in the rag bag [unclear] --
HIER: The kid's used to love to dress up and I used to keep a bag full of old clothes and things [unclear]
CAMPBELL: But he's the only one of the grandkids, how much, you've got about a dozen of them, don't you.
HIER: I've got seven -- eighteen now.
CAMPBELL: Eighteen!
MACHANN: Oh, my.
CAMPBELL: And Jim has seventeen [unclear] that's the only one, Jim can just see every movement of these [unclear] but he was our first one, you know.
HIER: I'm waiting for it to sit still and then you can wack it! [swatting fly]
CAMPBELL: Right on your speaker.
MACHANN: See, right on the rim. [swat]
HIER: Got him, I think.
MACHANN: Think so, he came away and hit my hand so.
CORNISH: Really [laughter] --
MACHANN: Step on him, good shot, good for you. That's just wonderful on the tape recorder.
CORNISH: Is this think okay? [unclear] [laughter]
MACHANN: Yes, I was working on it and John said mommy there's a lot of laughing on that tape. [talking in the back ground about pictures and swatting flies] We do that when we get together.
HIER: Keep landing on the tape recorder.
CAMPBELL: Of what you've got now, do you remember some women walkin' in front of the train in 1905, mom tell you about it.
HIER: I don't remember that.
MACHANN: Well, evidently, the lady who's going to be doing the ghost walks in October has us spending hours down at the Douglas County Public Library and they have a documented ghost in Sedalia --
HIER: Oh, I have a Poltergeist in my house.
MACHANN: Oh, you do, well I've got one in my house too, but I know who he is. Mine's very sweet and protects the house. But, evidently a train hit, a woman threw herself in front of the train in 1905 and, ah, for years after that the train would be chugging down the track and the engineer's would slam on the brakes because they'd see this woman throwing herself in front of them again and people would all go dashing over to see if they could help her pick up the pieces, and, of course, there was nothing there.
HIER: That was the year mom and dad were married.
CAMPBELL: Yes, well now this is what, the little guy from the lumber company over here, he's quite the railroad guy. I'll ask him if he's come up with any --
MACHANN: Yes.
CAMPBELL: -- you know this little fellow that walks around a noon, the gray-haired little guy, well he walks at noon and I thought maybe he was some Johnson's and the Doc I said is that Johnson walks and he said no he's an architect. So the other day Guy said well Johnson, Joey, Johnnie Johnson called me at seven o'clock in the morning and have you got a picture of that train. And ah, Guy, I said well somebody from over there wants it. So I took it over and I'd never met Johnnie, you know Johnnie the little one, so I said Johnnie and this one came to the door and he said I'm his brother, you'd never know it, very good lookin', he's in part of the building and the dad's over there too. But this guy isn't their dad and he was tickled to death to get that picture of the train see. And he knows all about it and all and he's just quite interested in this train. But I gave it to the brother, see, and I said Johnnie said somebody wanted it and boy here come the poor guy walking by and I bet you and he sees he lookin' for us, so walked back to the lumber company and back again and then I showed him my yellow, my red book and can I take that and I said, sure. He brought it back, he said, you know how valuable that book is? He said, an engineer said that's worth $500. You can't buy them now.
HIER: This is Josephine Marr's.
MACHANN: Oh yes, that is a very valuable book, I'd wish they'd reprint that.
CAMPBELL: Well he said that's why it's so valuable because there's no ah, no copies made. But I'll ask him bein's he's up on this railroad bit --
MACHANN: Oh yes he might know about that ghost.
CAMPBELL: -- because he pretty nice now that, you know, very nice and, in fact I just saw him from walkin' but Johnnie one morning, he said, well I asked him weeks ago but he was quite urgent this one morning, you know the little guy. He can work, he works about all night long on his equipment and he goes out and works in the day time, but he'll have it runnin' in the morning, cause he's a card if there ever was one.
CORNISH: Now, where is he? [unclear]
HIER: Johnson, the Weaver house, they lived --
CORNISH: Oh, okay [unclear] --
MACHANN: I've got a question for you two, we discovered we do not have any pictures of Albert Manhart's house that went down the creek in the flood of 1965. We don't have any pictures of Albert except for the one that was in the paper after he lost his house. And someone told me that there is a Joan Manhart Moser?
HIER: Mosley.
MACHANN:Mosley, okay, how do you spell her last name?
HIER: I think it's M-O-S-L-E-Y.
CAMPBELL: Doesn't she work down at the senior center, or, she works somewhere up there.
HIER: Well, I think.
CAMPBELL: She's up to the Senior's quite a bit.
HIER: She is, you know, Albert's cousin.
MACHANN: Ah, okay, so we thought maybe it would be worth a call to see if maybe she had anything in her --
CAMPBELL: Would be Helen's daughter.
HIER: Yeah, Helen's, George Manhart's daughter. George Manhart's daughter was Vaughn, you know, that had the ranch and his brother was George Manhart Mercantile [unclear] Mr. Manhart's father. So Albert and George Manhart were first cousins. George's daughter.
MACHANN: Right, she may have some information, because a lot of people don't even remember that George and Edna Allis lived down there.
HIER: Oh, is that right? That was the old creamery, you know?
MACHANN: Yes, and we don't have any pictures of that from the outside, either. We do have some from the inside.
HIER: My ah, my grandmother sold that property to the creamery. That was part of the Beeman Ranch.
MACHANN: Oh it was so she had both sides of road there.
HIER: Ah, I vaguely remember who that picture was but, ah, you know the lady in Longmont that has pushed the pioneer license plate?
MACHANN: Yes, yeah.
HIER: She is the granddaughter of Frink creamery family and they might have pictures.
CORNISH: Well, there's one at the library, I'm sure, because I've seen it. Maybe it's in Marr's book I don't [unclear] --
MACHANN: Here's one of the interior, but this is sort of a bad one of the exterior so I don't really count that, but --
CAMPBELL: Well, that's the way it looked, see, it's dark, but see it had them steps out there --
HIER: Yeah, that's it.
CAMPBELL: But, this one I'll give you a different one you can take that one off of there.
MACHANN: Oh [laughter] --
CAMPBELL: She wanted to know about the, you know, why it [unclear] to the Beemans but this is a good picture of Grandad [unclear] --
HIER: Eight grade graduation. [unclear]
HIER: How old was he, he wasn't even two was he? But he like to run off.
CAMPBELL: Liked to run off, he didn't mind scat, then he come, his grandkids drive him crazy, I said "why"? [laughter]
CAMPBELL: Is he two years older than sis or four?
HIER: Four
CAMPBELL: Well then he was four years old, and he Harriet had sis down home and we had to take Jackie up to the garage to his dad so Louise walked along the ties pile and I walked this way and herded him up the street made him stay in the street. [laughter]
MACHANN: Now, he's the one you used to put a red dress on?
HIER: Oh no, his is Jack, brother George.
MACHANN: Oh, that was George. [unclear]
HIER: When he was in Arizona, Jack was probably not more than two and he kept, he'd run off and she'd have to catch him before she went to school --
CAMPBELL: Had to walk a mile to school.
CORNISH: Oh, I see.
CAMPBELL: So we had the dog tied up you know with a collar so I just undone the collar and put it around Mr. Jack and tied him out there and he squalled for about an hour and he never run off again after that. [laughter] Morgan liked to die, before I went to school I'd, we had a canal just right up a block, so we just knew he'd go up there. When I told him about that, oh Martha just laughed, he never run off after that. [laughter]
MACHANN: Oh, I loved your story about little, you know, about George, you know running off in the fields and having to wear a red dress so his mom could find him.
HIER: Especially if the gypsies were in the area and he take to the horses, he scared to death of the gypsies so if he couldn't get home he'd go to the field to get to the horses [laughter] thought he was safer with the horses.
CAMPBELL: That's quite a picture, inside of that creamery.
MACHANN: Yes, that really is, you know the historic, the Douglas County Historic Society, when they sold it, they had a lot of glass prints, they weren't tin types put they were photos on glass and they were storing them in the basement of the old high school. Now, when I found out about it I thought we'd better make copies of them, so that's why we have so many different copies. Those were some glass prints.
HIER: That's wonderful.
MACHANN: They really are a treasure, now Johanna has protected them [unclear] and that helps a lot. But, ah --
CAMPBELL: Didn't Earl and [unclear]have a camera?
HIER: Well, you know most everything was lost in the flood.
MACHANN: The only thing he got out with was his billfold and the clothes on their backs. And that was what they [unclear]
MACHANN: Yeah, we stayed with the folks [unclear] --
CAMPBELL: Cause, they would have pictures of the Manhart's house, whoever had it.
MACHANN: I would think they might have pictures from across the street but it would be nice to have a picture of the houses that were lost. And there was Albert Manhart, and George and Edna Allis, who else lost their house.
HIER: Well the Crooks lost their house.
MACHANN: Okay --
HIER: And then there was, ah, who, a friend of the Meyer's Mary Meyers??
CAMPBELL: Oh yeah, they're the ones on the other side of the grange hall.
HIER: Uh-huh, they had a place were Williamson's kind of rebuilt. It was sort of on the way to Scotty's and Mr. Alcott. Remember Mr. Alcott?
MACHANN: Very briefly.
HIER: He had beautiful iris beds.
MACHANN: Oh yes.
CAMPBELL: See, it took his house [unclear] --
HIER: His name was Bob and Joan [unclear] --
CAMPBELL: Well now what they did was bought a place up by Wendy Williams, ah, up where, ah, Amanda, Jay had it and they bought it from [unclear] --
HIER: Ah, George knows their names, I don't remember their name, there was Bob and Joan and then [unclear] --
CAMPBELL: That was the one, see, there's just a driveway between the grange hall and there's, it didn't, the grange hall just had room enough to drive a car around it really.
HIER: And the Manse, of course, and the Nelson's house.
MACHANN: And then the pictures that Bobby took were wonderful of the church --
HIER: Yes.
MACHANN: Yes, now, was there a Nelson in one of the buildings that was --
HIER: He was in the house, the two-story house where ah, ah [unclear] --
MACHANN: Ah, okay.
HIER: That was an old house [talking together]by the Lapham family.
CAMPBELL: By the Manse, it was for the preacher the house was -- and that's what Frank lived in.
HIER: They built the Manse on that between the church and the two-story house that was the Lapham house. That was one of the families in Sedalia, you known, that had thirteen children.
MACHANN: Yes, when we were doing the cemetery research that name came up a lot.
CORNISH: With thirteen of 'em.
HIER: And, ah, Rollie Curtis married one of the Laphams, Aunt Ida Mae we called her.
CAMPBELL: She was a Penley wasn't she, Frank Penley --
HIER: Well, the Lapham and Penley's were neighbors.
CAMPBELL: Oh I see.
HIER: Mrs. Lapham and Mrs. Penley were sisters, and Aunt Ida was a Lapham, she was a cousin.
CAMPBELL: Frank called her Aunt Ida all --
HIER: Everybody called her Aunt Ida.
CAMPBELL: See this was the deal about families up there -- this was Frank, this belonged to Frank Penley, but now it don't, the meadow down there at Butterfields, the girl got it and they're buildin' a house -- the sister to Jeff, Butterfield's wife, the one that married --
MACHANN: Oh, oh.
CAMPBELL: Well she got half of the place and she's buildin' a place through that meadow.
CORNISH: Laurie --
HIER: The meadow they're talkin' about, she's talking about is Pine Nook, you know when the road swings around and there's that natural -- that's the meadow she's talking about. [talking at once]
CAMPBELL: Butterfield, he always mowed it for [talking at once] and when they split up she got half of it -- get wood, you know Nighthawk -- washed the windows -- sitting in the back of that little dinky seat back there, kind of sideways and me trying to take in all, I hadn't been up there all summer and I said never again, we got another one. [unclear] -- sold it and he built another one [unclear] and then she got this property [all talking for several minutes]
HIER: That two-story house -- and they lived right on that street. [unclear, sound of swatting flies].
CAMPBELL: Boy he's tough. Right there he is, he's right there --[swatting at fly]
MACHANN: I don't think she got him.
CAMPBELL: I don't either.
HIER: Well I didn't want to hit you --
MACHANN: That's a great way to get even with your sister [laughter] for the past transgressions. [laughter]
HIER: We had to do dishes and Florence was washing and she purposely put dirty dishes in the rinse water and I'd put them back and she'd say, "okay, if you don't like the way I wash them, you can do it yourself." So, if I was to wash the dishes and she got, something on the plate or something, "well, if you can't wash them right, you can do it yourself!" [laughter] My grandfather Davis, we were going at it one day about -- he said, I'll tell you what when you girls get married I'll furnish you all with paper plates. [laughter]
MACHANN: Did he remember that?
HIER: He was gone before we got married.
CAMPBELL: Ah, have you got that picture of him -- to Daniels Park?
HIER: He was the first park manager park ranger at Daniels Park.
MACHANN: Okay now I think we have this one, don't we Douggie? [all talking at once]
HIER: He was the first ranger for seventeen years.
CORNISH: Ranger at Daniels Park?
HIER: Uh-huh, when they built the storm house, you know, Miss Martin gave that corner to the City and County of Denver for a park and they build that beautiful stone, storm house and he started patrol, but he patrolled it, he lived just across the way from there. And he was always on a horse and he [unclear]a long stick with forks and he killed snakes --
CAMPBELL: Rattlesnakes, there was a lot of them. Where he lived [all talking together] on the dam, what do they call it, you to up there now, the road atop of Riley hill, goes that way, his house is right there, that green-- [unclear]
MACHANN: Now in your interview you had said something about, ah, your mom carrying water, well now did they discover a spring later?
HIER: There was a spring that the house was build over but it didn't run all the time. So when the spring was dry, then they had to go over to the Kings --
MACHANN: And get water.
HIER: -- which is across Daniels Park road, where they, I don't know the name of the people but he was a landscape gardener that was the King's place and that's where they carried water from.
MACHANN: That's a long --
CAMPBELL: Maitland, she called 'em, didn't she?
HIER: Well it wasn't Maitland, that was years later.
CAMPBELL: Yeah, but that's where Maitland's lived [unclear]
CORNISH: Who was it that dedicated that land? Was it someone from this area that dedicated that land to the city?
HIER: Mrs. Martin, Florence Martin was her name and she gave that to the City and County of Denver. She got mad at Douglas County.
CORNISH: I know, you know, what's her name, ah, used to come and do her jewelry with us --
CAMPBELL: Mary Wilkinson, she had some wild tale about that -- never remember exactly what it was. Well the commissioner, his son was the one that lived there lived there, what's his name, he lived over by McArthurs [unclear] he wouldn't fix the bridge for her and she said "good enough" I'll just give it all to Denver and Douglas County won't get one penny of it, and that's what [unclear]and now they're oilin' it and I'm dying from curiosity, if they're just going to the top of the hill or if they're goin' on through, see the golf course is at the top of the hill, if they'll go on through to Martin's or not. The road, it kind of got bad, I -- real bad road. See--
HIER: University always came out that way, you know -- street cars.
CAMPBELL: But no, that was June's dad, see. [unclear]
HIER: My granddad when they homesteaded out there he mowed for the City and County of Denver, he always had horses, he had two horses -- my mother and her brothers and step-brothers did all the farming, but, they were so happy when they got hoes, she had to use knives to cut wheat --
MACHANN: Oh my goodness.
HIER: She said it was, they thoroughly enjoyed, they were so happy to be out there but she said -- [unclear]
CAMPBELL: Different pictures of this, postmaster see, they [all talking at same time] and whenever Manharts was in, you know, would be in the store [all talking at same time] I said, "why did they move it so often? Every time they changed politics.
[Campbell and Hier are talking to other people for several minutes]
MACHANN: Yes, and we do have that picture, the Round Top school.
CORNISH: You have a picture of the Round Top school?
MACHANN: Yes, and Johanna Harden says it's the only one in the county that she knows of.
CORNISH: I know cause a lot of people --
CAMPBELL: Well, wasn't Mr. Metzler in on that?
HIER: No, my mother had that picture.
CAMPBELL: Yeah, but when it was closed.
HIER: Oh when that school was closed, I don't remember what I did -- but they did have it open for a long time. They moved it from the round top, the school to my grandfather's place because mom was renting the place to Williams, who later became the town, the local judge at Castle Rock, you know. Albe Joe Williams parents and Albe Joe and his brother were the only two kids going to that school and their mother was a teacher. So they moved the school from Round Top to their house, and that's when they closed Round Top and they later moved to Castle Rock and he became a county judge and Albe Joe still lives in Castle Rock.
CAMPBELL: Well and his sister's son, brother, Bob said he's the only one in the county when they registered him for huntin' deer or somethin', he said, when they got through he said they didn't read me my rights. [laughter] You know, Albe's brother, everybody just could of died, well he was caught red-handed but they didn't read him his rights.
MACHANN: And he figured he had friends in high places. [laughter]
CAMPBELL: Well his dad was kind of the justice of the peace. [unclear] He still lives on the, out at Glovers, that farm that is kind of a run down the point there, that's Albe Joe's, he's still got it. He lived with a daughter somewhere else [unclear]
HIER: There's a little place that has chicken fence -- [unclear] talking about not selling it --
MACHANN: Now -- Davis's house over there, when did they move this in, do you remember when Gladys moved in, there by the little house be Jarre Mart?
CAMPBELL: Mom bought that and my name was on it and she said Gladys she don't, I'd like to live over there instead of this one and Mom said what about, just trade her, got more land over and that thing all I'm doin' is paying taxes on it so that's when Uncle George and Aunt Gladys --
HIER: Mom must have bought it from Mrs. Failing -- and her son, Allen is the little drummer, is the little guy playing the drums. He was a wonderful [unclear] -- he spent his life as a musician he played with --
CAMPBELL: -- in the service, he died last year, they brought his ashes back up here.
MACHANN: Oh, that's special.
HIER: And they lived over there in this house, that corner was Failing's Meat Market.
MACHANN: Well, and for awhile McCane, McCann's owned it.
HIER: McCann's, uh-huh.
MACHANN: And it was a post office, at one point and that was when it was switched from Alberts to there and then back to Alberts again.
HIER: Well Mrs. Green had it --
CAMPBELL: -- that would be the Manhart's, here in the one store and then Alberts fell in later on but the Manhart's, his father, see, had it --
HIER: And then the lady that had the grocery store over at Ullerys, Mrs. Green, she had it at one time. And you asked me about Uncle George carrying mail and Florence said that he did carry mail.
MACHANN: Oh, did he?
CAMPBELL: I think he carried it after we did, see, Paul lived in Denver when Don and Bobby were just little, Harriet and I [unclear] would catch the mail and would bring it up, one day I had them and it was snowin' and I didn't set and watch and see that the train caught it for sure, and that night Paul said did you look and see if he caught it for sure? No, it's just settin' there. Well he'd missed it and that's when they sent the money in on that, that bag, and Paul went up there and it was around the curve. He had to get it right -- but we had to set there and watch it, -- he got if off the hook see and down the track he lost it. [unclear] Yeah, Paul, he went and, you sure, well I'm sure he caught, you know. But he didn't have it hooked all the way in, so Paul found it. That's the way they sent the money to town on that one at night.
MACHANN: Oh, glad Paul was sharp --
CAMPBELL: Well, when they called, see, that no bag, well then he checked which one who had, and then Don, Bobby and I'd go see and Don had to come be with, they's always together. We had both of them -- then I'd drive up there, see, and I had them foolin' for sure and didn't watch the bag, he got it but I didn't see --
MACHANN: Was too cold that day [laughter].
CAMPBELL: Got it, because day after day, you know, they just hit it just right, they'd always catch it.
MACHANN: Except for the one time!
CAMPBELL: Yeah, for all time for me to have a lost bag.
MACHANN: At least the train didn't run over it.
CAMPBELL: No, just lost it down there on the curb.
MACHANN: Ah, Louise, you were telling me that somebody had a copy of the Friendly hist, family history?
HIER: Ah, the one that said that would have it was Tommy Manhart and that was and I asked the day he was there and Pat, Pat Manhart who is a nephew, a cousin, a second cousin of Tommy said he was the one that had kept all the family history, but he has a daughter, Martha, did I give you her name?
MACHANN: You gave me her address and I wrote to her, she has not written me back.
HIER: She hasn't written back?
MACHANN: I was kind of hoping she might have a picture of the old Manhart house and, ah --
HIER: Well, I'm sure, they have a lot of pictures, you know, I don't know about Francis Lambert because they spent a lot of time there too. When the Manhart's grandchildren would come, they would play with Francis and Mary Lambert and they'd either go over to Lambert's or, ah [pause] --
CORNISH: It's on her shoulder. [swatting fly]
CAMPBELL: Hit it hard, he's tough, they want to be killed --
MACHANN: Well, I think there must be six or eight of them that just flew that way, I saw out of the corner of my eye.
CORNISH: Scared 'em anyway. [Swat]
MACHANN: I don't see any body! [laughter] Got the muscle to get him sooner or later.
HIER: But I don't know what Francis -- she might have pictures of the Albert Manhart house.
MACHANN: Where is Francis?
HIER: Sorry.
MACHANN: Where is Francis?
HIER: Francis is in Longmont and, ah, she's wanting to sell, but she hasn't sold her place yet.
MACHANN: Okay, now her married name was Prescott?
HIER: Prescott, my a, Mick Prescott was her husband, ah, I can't get her address, I don't have it.
CAMPBELL: But she was to Mike's wedding, you see.
HIER: Yes, but she still lives in Longmont, she still has a place there. Oldest son's daughter got married last week.
MACHANN: Oh.
CAMPBELL: Well you knew Mike, didn't ya?
MACHANN: Yes, yes.
CAMPBELL: His older daughter got married.
HIER: In Grand Junction.
CAMPBELL: Well I was goin' to say [unclear] --
MACHANN: Well see I remember these kids when they were little kids and that's the way I picture them, cause I haven't seen 'em for years.
CAMPBELL: Well, but he, they were about in school with you, weren't they?
MACHANN: I think, maybe, Pam. Pam may have gone to school with us, cause she's four years younger than I am, and so between the two of us we sort of managed to cover, cover the area but not all of it.
CAMPBELL: But Billy, does she know anything about it, do you suppose?
HIER: She lives in Kiowa and I don't even know her married name, Billy, Francis's youngest daughter, Billy. But I don't even know her married name. I could ask, I could find out Friday for you -- but I'm sure she lives in Kiowa.
MACHANN: And I'll write down that she's the daughter so I'll know.
HIER: Yeah, daughter of Francis --
CAMPBELL: She might know what has happened to the [unclear]--
MACHANN: Yeah, seems like in every generation there is maybe one person in the family who's really interested in retaining family.
CAMPBELL: Well that's what, bein's they moved so much, whether she kept 'em or not, I don't know. [unclear]
HIER: I'll get her address.
MACHANN: Oh, that would be a big help.
HIER: I have my purse out in the car, I might have it.
MACHANN: Oh, well don't walk out now.
HIER: Remind me.
MACHANN: Well, if I could borrow, you know, the photographs, I'll run in tonight and get copies of --
HIER: I don't know if we could get them out of the album without -- this is a photograph of my mother and Uncle George and Uncle Matt.
MACHANN: Oh, okay, now who were the family members, I know there was Walt?
CAMPBELL: And Charlie.
MACHANN: Walt and Charlie.
HIER: Walter and Myrtle and then Charlie and then Lou, and there was Minnie and, ah Roy. Dad -- and he died when she was twelve and Roy died when --
CAMPBELL: But I'll get that picture, you know, so when you get that made, but you know what else I found the other day, I don't know if I can find them again, when they tore down the store, when they --
MACHANN: Oh, have you got a picture of it when half of it's wall is gone?
CAMPBELL: Yeah.
MACHANN: I've got a picture of it somewhere and I can't find it.
CAMPBELL: Well, the other day I saw it --
MACHANN: Do you know the dates on that?
HIER: I think it, you can take that picture out, if he helps.
DOUGGIE YOUNG: Well if you going to take them to get copies I was just doin' one, sort of --
[Still discussing fly]
YOUNG:: "Hunt for Red October" when the torpedo comes in and the guys --
MACHANN: Yes, and it's always really interesting because we have two conversations going on here [unclear] --
YOUNG: I'm real sorry that the video didn't work because that would of -- I didn't realize the glass was broken [unclear]
MACHANN: I'll see if dad could, maybe, cut another piece of glass for that because that really does need to be protected. [unclear]
HIER: I should have left that glass at home.
CAMPBELL: Well I'm still, I've got mine in the frame and I don't know where, haven't run across that for quite a while, because, you know cut glass for it [unclear] that's Mrs. Manhart's writing, very good writer for a teacher.
MACHANN: Yes, she had a wonderful, she had a wonderful hand and did she teach all of you.
CAMPBELL: You bet! Penmanship come pretty --
HIER: These are pictures of Sedalia Days and I have the negatives here.
MACHANN: Oh yes.
HIER: All of them here are of Sedalia.
MACHANN: And that was in what, [19]82?
HIER: [19]81, I think. May 30, [19]81.
MACHANN: Ah, see she's got the dates --
CAMPBELL: That's, where's mom?
HIER: Up in the balloon. [laughter] [unclear] she was eighty-six --
CAMPBELL: Looking all over for mom, see, and where's mom.
HIER: -- let her go for a balloon ride.
CAMPBELL: Jim got her a ride to go up in the balloon [laughter]
HIER: Can I borrow that pen for a minute.
MACHANN: She must have been a remarkable lady.
CAMPBELL: She didn't miss a trick and then up to the condemned, you know the upper part of the deal. Where, up to the thing, so we had to go up there and spent the afternoon thinkin' it was goin' to fall down. [laughter]
HIER: They had a melodrama upstairs, up in the [talking together]you know, up in the store--
HIER: They had a stage there and they had a melodrama.
CAMPBELL: It lasted for about two hours, when we found Mom [unclear] [laughter]
MACHANN: I didn't know they had a melodrama going on up there.
HIER: Oh yes.
YOUNG: Well, I remember that year, yeah.
MACHANN: Who did that?
HIER: I, I don't know who put that on, was it Mrs. Schubarth or who was it.
MACHANN: Oh, maybe that was Joe's wife, Deleita.
CAMPBELL: I don't know but anyway mom took it in like the Fourth of July around here, she didn't miss a trick.
MACHANN: Ah, well, I would say not. [unclear] -- go for a balloon ride.
CAMPBELL: Well see they had it tied up down there in the field and when you'd see, well where's Mom, where's Granny, "up in the balloon, Jim's got her [laughter] and one, you know, one of the first grandkids, she just had herself a ball.
MACHANN: Oh, that's wonderful.
YOUNG: Do you remember [unclear] --
MACHANN: Oh have you got a picture of her?
HIER: These are pictures of the firefighters, you know they had contests?
MACHANN: Yes, yes, in fact we have some of those photographs from then where they were, this is the parade, there is Cindy Thompson on the top, and this was our boys that were doing the tug-o-war, and, ah, Terry Tompson, okay, now, I'm not sure you've got it here, but we did very well --
YOUNG: When are these?
MACHANN: -- until we got to pull against Jackson 105, and, ah, JimVance had his very young, lovely daughter dressed in a bikini -- and she had a long coat on and just about the time our guys were ready to win, she opened her coat and our guys lost it right there, I mean, Jackson 105 won the contest hands down.
HIER: Who was in this?
MACHANN: Jim Vance, remember Holly?
HIER: Oh yes.
MACHANN: Well, she had a bikini on underneath this long coat and when our guys were ready to win she just opened her coat and she was standing where our guys could see her and, of course, they lost the contest, right then, their lack of concentration.
YOUNG: Picture of them all fallin' in the mud.
MACHANN: Yes. [laughter]
CORNISH: And when was this?
MACHANN: 1981.
CAMPBELL: That's when you made the book.
MACHANN: Yes.
CAMPBELL: Oh, we had quite the street then [unclear] mom was in on everything.
MACHANN: Oh, that's great.
CAMPBELL: When you bumped in, well where, who's got mom?
HIER: See that's Guy and Brook and Florence.
CAMPBELL: No Brook, I took him in the buggy --
MACHANN: Oh my goodness.
CAMPBELL: -- Bobby had to work so, ah,--
MACHANN: Yes, and here is all grown up and in college and --
CAMPBELL: Yes.
MACHANN: Oh, look at the mountain men, who were these people?
HIER: That's Joe Wyatt and his son, Charlie.
MACHANN: Oh, well now see we need to sit down with these pictures and get ah, because look at that? Joel Wyatt.
HIER: And remember the kids that built the canon, it was Todd Jensma and the Sandell boys.
MACHANN: Ah, let me write down and you get a picture [laughter] --
HIER: But I don't know --
MACHANN: A picture of a picture.
HIER: The tallest one is Todd, but I don't know, ah --
CAMPBELL: And these are the Sandell boys -- Wade Sandell [unclear] wasn't he?
HIER: I don't know the boys so I couldn't tell you who's what.
MACHANN: And it was Todd, ah.
HIER: Jensma.
CAMPBELL: And I'm sure Wade was the oldest --
MACHANN: Of the Sandells?
CAMPBELL: Sandells.
MACHANN: Okay, yes because see I, those are wonderful --
HIER: Oh these are some pictures of --
MACHANN: Oh, and have you got one of your mom in the balloon.
CORNISH: Now these are the same as in there, are they not?
MACHANN: Ah.
YOUNG: No, that's parade and this is, this is the parade. Barbara if you can get those--
MACHANN: Can I just peel this back because look at this, this is, Gaye Howard is right in the middle there.
YOUNG: On, in yellow?
MACHANN: Yes, and those were the costumes we made for the guys when they dragged the old chemical engine through the streets in the parade.
YOUNG: Now where did these come from?
HIER: Those are extras.
MACHANN: Those are wonderful.
HIER: But this was just, they were [unclear] We have a picture of mom --
MACHANN: Well and they are working up a story on the chemical engine and they were wondering what it looked like and, of course, this was on a cart that dad had. But, ah, they would really get a kick out of -- Now when are you going to Arizona?
HIER: The last of October --
MACHANN: Okay, so if we [talking together] if we take the negatives in and get those developed then we'd have a set of these. Oh yes and here's one of the famous water fights. We used to be very good at that. Cindy Thompson was always, what we called the lead man, and Gaye Howard would back her up and then, ah, now I don't remember this. They had a dunking tank at that --
HIER & CAMPBELL: Oh, yeah. [unclear]
CAMPBELL: This looks like money, see it fell in there. Oh, it was quite a busy street.
MACHANN: I would say.
CAMPBELL: Well where was you at?
MACHANN: Probably up here at the fire station, selling the books.
HIER: He just fell in, I don't know who he'd be.
MACHANN: Well somebody got wet but those are wonderful pictures.
HIER: They had, ah, oh food, they had --
YOUNG: Yes, I saw those, I didn't know what it was.
HIER: Sausage, ah, sausage from up at the sausage place and everything. [unclear]
CORNISH: Well, where is this? Where this building here?
MACHANN: That must have been at the school. The Sedalia School.
HIER: It had to be at the school.
MACHANN: With the brick.
CAMPBELL: Oh, it was all over town, the parade clear up around the circle.
CORNISH: Yeah, but I wonder where that building there looks so tall there -- [pause]
CAMPBELL: -- store, see they had the hay out there --
HIER: But that side of that building is, ah --
MACHANN: Well and remember the Manhart store actually collapsed.
HIER: Well wait a minute, is this Castle Rock optimist? -- the old tank, ah -- maybe that's in Castle Rock at the court house.
MACHANN: Ah, now that's possible. Because I didn't remember a dunking tank.
HIER: I know they had one there one time -- why that pictures there, I must, whoever was getting dunked is who I took the picture of. [laughter]
MACHANN: Do you recognize who that was getting dunked.
HIER: Well, I don't know --
CAMPBELL: Well I don't know if we had any -- up to the restaurant.
HIER: Well, it's at the court house [unclear].
MACHANN: Ye old dunk tank, well that I don't think was, I don't think that was our Sedalia Days but it's a neat picture, never the less. And you really do have some wonderful pictures of -- Now Sedalia Days was held what two years or three.
HIER: Two or three years. And it was the first year that it was held that my mother went on the balloon ride and I don't, this was the first year, though, wasn't it?
MACHANN: [19]81?
CAMPBELL: Well, Louise, Bobby probably has them with her up in the balloon cause I don't have.
MACHANN: Well that would be a picture to have. [pause] Well if you don't mind me borrowing your negatives I'll --
HIER: Well these are the balloon that they are deflating, they aren't [pause]
MACHANN: Now those will take me three or four days to get them back to you --
CAMPBELL: Well especially with the [unclear]
HIER: You don't want the deflating one of the balloons -- but these are negatives that you might.
MACHANN: Well, if you've got one good one of the balloon, I would like to have that because, ah --
HIER: Well, they're just deflating it, I don't, but we'll have to get one of mom --
MACHANN:Oh [unclear] -- [swatting fly]
CAMPBELL: I don't know, he's tough. If we come to the firehouse again we'll bring a fly swatter, the last time I was here it was nice and crisp and cold, that's what--
MACHANN: And they were all nice and quiet and weren't buzzing around.
CAMPBELL: Well the lawyer was just as nice as he could be from down, clear down town Denver.
HIER: Well here, here is one of the balloon but I don't --
CAMPBELL: So that's what he was contesting, he wanted the county to pay for it -- but he said no, see, well and what was the big kick is [unclear] school bus driver, see we got with them and pulled the one -- I knew her dad, see, I knew, she just started work when I quiet and the other one's from Louviers and so we compared how much money we got. Well, Terry he got, Jim Price got the most, five dollars and somethin' and [loud fly swatting] got a little more, a little less --
HIER: Somebody should --
CAMPBELL: and ah, [swatting fly] she got him she got right there, good for you, step on it [laughter]
MACHANN: Make sure he's down.
CAMPBELL: School bus drivers [unclear] from the high school, you know from the garage, so they only got about a dollar and we got five dollars, see, they were big wages, but ah that was a big deal, see, we kind of just set back there [unclear] -- big purses -- when she got up and left once and come back well she thought she'd goin' be late and she'd had a cup of coffee and -- bring it in clear to the end -- so the next time she got out, where do you girls have to go to smoke, well clear out in that parking lot. So, they'd leave their purses and everything after that -- bus drivers are really hard on 'em but they have a place for them to smoke now, but they had to leave the court room and go clear out there to smoke. What you lookin' for, a fly?
HIER: Oh, I thought I dropped a negative.
MACHANN: Oh, I don't see one there.
HIER: I don't think I did, I caught one on my lap and I didn't think it went through my legs.
MACHANN: Well we'll check underneath the table and everything before we leave. Anyway, Johanna was going borrow your mother's scrap book, did she ever contact you about that?
HIER: About what?
MACHANN: Your mother's scrap book.
HIER: Mom's no -- haven't talked to her --
MACHANN: I'll think we'll have to wait until next year on that, when we come back next year -- because that would take quite awhile to copy that and she was interested in doing it but she wanted to sit down with you and have you go through the pictures and have you tell who everyone was and when we get these pictures developed we'll have to sit down with you again and get names on everybody because you know all these people that took part in the parade and that's important and we need to do that --
CAMPBELL: Well and then our Smoky the Bear, you know, was in that. He was quite a -- he was around here quite awhile, Smoky was, you know the Smoky the Bear that was in, he came back a couple years, who was Smoky the Bear in that—but he came back a couple years he come back and he was in the parade.
MACHANN: Oh, well let's find out who he was.
CAMPBELL: Well yeah.
MACHANN: We may find some pictures of him --
CAMPBELL: I think Bobby's got them pictures, but Sandell she was the, well she was the keeper of the canon.
HIER: This, you wanted a picture of my Uncle George.
MACHANN: Yes and your mom.
HIER: This is my mother's 90th Birthday and this is my Uncle George, and then here he is again and I think I have another one.
MACHANN: That's a wonderful picture of your mother
HIER: [unclear]that's my sisters Annie and Harriet [unclear] -- There is a picture of my Uncle George Davis, my brother George, and mother, but that's not too good --
MACHANN: Oh, but that's a pretty good picture, though, would it be easier if I just took the one and ran a copy of that?
HIER: That would be [unclear] that is a good picture of Uncle George Davis --
MACHANN: Now this [talking together]is the son, okay this is the son of the, George Davis that --
HIER: Tom Davis --
MACHANN: Tom Davis.
HIER: -- is their father.
MACHANN: Do you have any pictures of Tom Davis?
HIER: Yes, I ah, that picture of the park, that ah, and the family picture, you know, we have a family picture.
MACHANN: Yes, yes I do.
YOUNG: And we had some others. [unclear]
MACHANN: I don't think so, I haven't seen --
HIER: [unclear] There's Tom --
MACHANN: Yes, yes, a very handsome man.
HIER: This is him, Tom Davis -- he was the park ranger.
MACHANN: Yes, yes from Daniel's Park, ah, may I borrow these two and then may I borrow this one of your mother.
CORNISH: It been a nice thing to write up the history of Daniel's Park.
MACHANN: It would be [unclear] oh, I don't think I am going to try to get that out of there.
HIER: Will it come out?
MACHANN: Oh, it popped right out once you get the [unclear] oh, you've got some wonderful pictures here. [pause] That was a beautiful cake, too. [unclear]
HIER: We just had a wedding reception going on over at my house the first of September.
MACHANN: Oh, so she's all grown up, oh and I recognize this young lady.
CAMPBELL: No big fancy wedding, she works at the Arapahoe County Courthouse, so he went by there one day so they just went in and had the judge marry 'em, nothin' to it, see, and who else knew about it, ah, [unclear]Brook never heard of it, but Mary [unclear] said nothin' to it just forty dollars and sign your name, that was the way she got married, see [unclear] --
HIER: She was going to get married at the house and then she decided, no, she wasn't going have that of a "to-do" and so they came out a couple weeks after they got married just before the reception and just as they were leaving we [unclear] discussing some things about the reception and just as they were leaving,by the way we got married last Wednesday [laughter].
MACHANN: Oh, by the way. [unclear]
CAMPBELL: And Louise said I hadn't even noticed your hand or anything else. [laughter]
MACHANN: Now, you had seventy people there?
HIER: There were forty or fifty people.
MACHANN: Oh my.
HIER: But, ah, she wouldn't [unclear] it was there, you cut, she cut the cake, you helped yourself, they served the cake, but she --
CAMPBELL: They had wine --
HIER: They didn't have champagne, it was very casual, [all talking] just what she wanted. [unclear]
HIER: I guess they liked it they came at 3:30 and stayed 'til one [laughter], I think her husband went out and said we're tired and it's time for you guys to go home. [laughter]
MACHANN: They had control from the very beginning, didn't they? [laughter] [unclear]
HIER: Do you want these negatives?
MACHANN: I do want those negatives.
CAMPBELL: But he had just got home from, he'd been, where did he have to go?
HIER: Malaysia.
CAMPBELL: To Malaysia, the week, he just got home the middle of the week, that was just, just before this, he'd been in Malaysia this last week, she would have died! He just got home on Wednesday, see --
HIER: He wouldn't of made it by Saturday.
MACHANN: I've got three of your old pictures, I've got two of Tommy Davis and one of your mom. So I will get prints made of these right away and I will get those back to you, probably tomorrow morning and I'll stop by your house today and pick up the one of the Beeman --
HIER: You goin' do the long one too?
MACHANN: Yes.
HIER: I have to be in Castle Rock at noon tomorrow.
MACHANN: Oh, okay, well this will be early in the morning, I'll get them by about nine o'clock is that --
CAMPBELL: This is mine, well now where is mine.
MACHANN: Okay, now here I've got one [unclear]
CAMPBELL: The one with the fly spec on it
MACHANN: Yes [unclear] oh, I hate to take that out of the frame and --
CAMPBELL: Well I think that will just slide off the back [unclear] --
MACHANN: Now who is in that picture? I've got to write that down because --
CAMPBELL: Uncle George and mom and Uncle Matt.
MACHANN: Okay, Uncle George, Harriet and Uncle Matt, now, see I had not heard too much about Uncle Matt, was he the youngest?
HIER: Matt, no he's the oldest.
MACHANN: Oh, he was the oldest. I was thinking Walt was the oldest.
HIER: This is mother's day, 1942.
CAMPBELL: This was mom's not daddy's, see Matt and George and, ah, mom, but they had a magpie, did you ever see that magpie that Bobby got down there at the bridge? She got that in [19]92, she had it for nine years, Barbara called her up one day and it was talkin' [laughter] and, ah, so we fooled with a couple days and finally we got it caught and she had it in a cage for nine years and go in, what are you doin' Mag and she'll say "Obie", "Obie"!
MACHANN: Oh.
HIER: That's the name of the dog.
MACHANN: Oh, she's callin' the dog.
CAMPBELL: Yeah, somebody goes in the back door, see, they don't know whether somebodies there or the magpie, but the other day I found a picture and it was in [19]92 that we got the bird. Well, he was just a sittin' on the rail just a talkin', somebody had trained him to talk, see, and it was in October.
MACHANN: Oh you don't have to sign it right away, read it over first.
HIER: Is that all I have to do?
MACHANN: Yes, I can fill in the rest of it, if you want me to and --
CAMPBELL: That's for the library.
MACHANN: And I'll run you a copy of this so you'll have it, for your records and, ah --
CORNISH: Well, this is the information on those pictures that I'm not sure it was right and ah, so, ah -- but ah
MACHANN: Now do you need some scratch paper, Mary?
CORNISH: No, I've got some paper here, oh and then there's this, ah, ah about the railway in Castle Rock, they're trying to talk about moving the railroad tracks --
HIER: Oh, yes.
CORNISH: -- which they would start right north of town in Sedalia and go clear down to Larkspur and ah so most people are against it and, ah, so they [unclear] the Historical Society, I guess that's who [unclear] if you were against it --
CAMPBELL: Well yes, cause they'll just be one track through Sedalia, so my little friend tells me.
MACHANN: Oh.
CORNISH: Well, yeah, I don't what they're goin' to do in Sedalia.
CAMPBELL: Well he says there will be just one track in Sedalia, you'll have one train after another, you'll have a train in here all the time. He's quite a railroad guy.
CORNISH: Who's that?
CAMPBELL: The fellow from the lumber company?
CORNISH: Well anyway they're really fighting it and --
CAMPBELL: Well yes and then they'll want light rail and then --
CORNISH: Yeah, I mean it will be thousands and thousands of dollars and then that, if they every do get light rail why it will be [unclear] it won't be there [unclear] --
HIER: Light Rail is the answer.
CORNISH: It looks like it and, ah, they had some other literature and stuff if you were interested in looking at it, but this was the diagram of where it would, you know, here is Sedalia here, it starts south of Sedalia and Larkspur, look it'd go right through Larkspur and they're against it and of course they are, ah, and there too, and, but of course the developers that want that land to develop and, ah, which will spoil all of the older homes that are up on the hill and this is, it really is Castle Rock, so this was just a bunch of literature they had and ah, Bob Lowenberg who wrote the book, he's in Wyoming apparently now and he wrote a letter to Lionel Oberland about his objections and why and that's this long and I just gave you some other stuff that had been written about it. So there's all that stuff [unclear] --
HIER: Well really I'm definitely against it too.
CAMPBELL: Well I am too.
HIER: Well you know I'm for the light rail and I'm like you [unclear] would be the most economical thing to do --
CAMPBELL: -- railroad tracks like they did before -- but he said thought, if they do it would just be one track runnin' through Sedalia, you'd just have one train after another.
CORNISH: Well this stuff -- captions on all these pictures I have, I just gathered this information and I don't know whether it's right or maybe you, maybe it's wrong, or maybe you could add to it, that's why I wanted to have your -- now these are the same that's up on the wall there, but here is, ah, I don't think I can take it out of there -- I think I glued it on the back of -- I've got 'em all here this is the same thing as the captions on the other, so, ah, we could just read 'em. [unclear]
CAMPBELL: [unclear] -- well it was over by McDonalds.
HIER: -- by McDonalds, wasn't it?
CAMPBELL: Well, wasn't it over here on this, behind the [unclear] --
CORNISH: Well I thought it was where Green Ellory is, the Ellory --
HIER: Oh, you think it was down there by [unclear] --
CORNISH: Now, here's what I got, this property was purchased by D. B. Blunt in 1887 from Jonathan House, Blount built this home and opened a meat market on the store front the early 1890's show F. T. Green running the meat market. Hattie Green was the first telephone operator. Through the years many names were connected with [unclear] occupancy or ownership [unclear] Gunnison [unclear] W. O . Ellory bought it in [19]22, the family living there until it was sold in 1978. It's been many things, grocery, general merchandise, hotel, restaurant, barber shop, railroad, men's quarters, living space, antique store, one remembers the gas pump, pump at center front. Now owned by Sedalia Realty it houses real estate offices, flower shop, church, vinyl siding office and two apartments, all well kept up. Now that's what I have on there, is there anything that's wrong?
CAMPBELL: That's good, and you know who rents one of the apartments? Donny Ullery, Ron Ullery.
CORNISH: Yeah, I talked to him when, ah, when I was doing this.
CAMPBELL: Oh, [talking at same time]
CORNISH: He must have given me.
CAMPBELL: -- rented the [unclear] see, that's sounds just like it.
CORNISH: But, if there is anything to add or anything that's wrong [unclear] oh yes, that was the bordello for awhile. [laughter]
HIER: The massage parlor. [laughter]
CAMPBELL: Every guy in Louviers picked up that up to no end. [laughter]
CORNISH: Well I should have that written up on that, that's good, yes. What else? And that was on this side and on the other side was McDonald's general store, Rebekah Lodge and see the original structure built in mid 1880's by John McDonald housed the store in front, living quarters in back. The store was well stocked with coal, Levi shirts, food stuffs, meats and so forth. [unclear] A peanut jar, John always had peanuts to share, his wife, Margaret carried candy in a large apron pocket, when Margaret died in 1923 John dressed her, placed her in the cooler at [unclear] and took her to the Bear Canon Cemetery in the truck, John died in 1931. I don't know where I found that information, but I did read it someplace, I think from a newspaper article. In 1933 the building was purchased by Oddfellows 142 and converted into a lodge hall. Store front windows and the center door were completely covered with wood siding extending to the false front facade. Jasmine Rebekah Lodge number 83 maintained it and met there until it was sold to a private party a few years ago.
HIER: Have you been in --
CORNISH: Yes, I was in it just once, yes, it's interesting the way he changed the front back to where it was --
HIER: And found the sign, and found the original --
CORNISH: Yes, and found the sign but --
CAMPBELL: And I said well I got a picture of that and it said the general store along the side of it.
CORNISH: Well, uh-huh, I know he was looking for original pictures.
CAMPBELL: Well when we went when it opened up why he was tickled to death --
CORNISH: Oh yes, I'm sure it was.
CAMPBELL: But he it's fixed it up so nice.
CORNISH: Yeah, and it was interesting, he said and you know when they had the Rebekah Lodge they had to close it all, it could not have an outside door.
CAMPBELL: Door, no.
CORNISH: But he found, ah, what had been and outside door in the side here.
CAMPBELL: Yeah, well that's where we --
CORNISH: It had been a store, a side door.
CAMPBELL: But see down where the porch deal is, see it came into a hall and that's why we didn't have an outside door, that was our outside that's how went and come in that, where that little porch is. But it was into the hall --
CORNISH: Yeah, I know. But before the Rebekah --
CAMPBELL: Well, he said that one room [talking at same time] --
CORNISH: He found that there was a, you know, [unclear] siding on that, so, but mainly it's these houses that, ah, I'm not, the history of these that I'm just not sure of and, ah, if I could get it better, why I'd sure be happy about it and so the Beeman, now Duncan Ranch I, I titled it that way if that's proper or not, I don't know. And, ah, Charles and his --
HIER: It was James not Charles.
CORNISH: Oh really, oh.
HIER: There was a son, Charles, but grandfather [talking at same time] --
CORNISH: Oh, now I wonder how I found that.
CAMPBELL: Because he got shot -- he was Woodman of the World, have you got one of the woodman deal[unclear] Charlie was a woodman --
CORNISH: Okay, this is Charles, what is it?
CAMPBELL: James [unclear]
CORNISH: Beeman with their three children [unclear] bought a ranch from Jonathan House, lived there [unclear] property was located south and west of the intersection of Highway 105 going south and 167 going west. Here the Beemans built spacious two-story home, travelers often stopped, stabled their horses and camped over night. Beemans pond not only provided winter skating, recreation but furnished ice for the town. [unclear] creamery was built on a portion of the ranch. Now you say that was across 105?
HIER: [unclear] creamery is, where George Allis lived, it's right, like by the --
CAMPBELL: By the grange hall.
HIER: Grange hall, right back of the grange hall, that's were [unclear] creamery was, you know where --
CORNISH: Okay, where he, where he's just got a lot of stuff there now.
HIER: Well it's a home, the grange hall is a home now, the Williams, the creamery was just up this way for about --
CAMPBELL: Got a little bee down there -- Your friend, Noel Alexander--
MACHANN: Why did you call him my friend. [laughter]
CAMPBELL: No, but, when you had that telephone number, you know, I said well that's --
[unclear, new speaker] Alexander Construction, and she said "not" [unclear] but it's listed as Alexander Construction, not
[unclear, new speaker] well he must have made the petting farm and closed the street see you know [unclear]
MACHANN: Petting farm?
CAMPBELL: Well, see we had turkeys last fall, after the trial and the cars just stoppin' out there and I thought what's goin' on, we haven't got a train -- [unclear] got out and heres a turkey goin' down the road. Terry, he come by and are you guys raisin' turkeys and I said no but I went over and the state guy said did that turkey come in here and Bob said well I don't know and a young kid back there he said "yeah" he's down there, I said well good I wandered him off the road but it was the turkeys from the petting farm, they had a peacock and a turkey [unclear] that's what [unclear] wanted you guys to get in on and he had this bunch of little stuff that [talking together] he had the road blocked off with.
CORNISH: [laughter] Well those turkeys were around for quite awhile.
CAMPBELL: Yeah, the state guy said well he's down by the bridge, you know, and there'd different [unclear] at the post office they just teased Bobby about turkeys all over town and the mail carrier brings his little dog and he lets him out [unclear] ties him up, the little guy got after a turkey one morning, see, they just, they were a joke, but evidently they finally, he didn't bother to pick 'em up or anything, but after we had opened the street. But there was a peacock in all around too.
CORNISH: Well I didn't see that.
MACHANN: No, I haven't either.
CAMPBELL: Well this is when he had opened it up, see, he let us know that he had -- and he's got big rocks up there like they'd been there a hundred years and haven't even been there for months.
HIER: That was the main street out of town.
CORNISH: That was a highway, wasn't it [unclear] right past the post office -- across the tracks --
CAMPBELL: But it, he called it Purcher [sp?] Street.
CORNISH: When did it go back into the present, I'm tryin' to figure out just how that road went, ah, right along the creek.
CAMPBELL: Right up across the tracks and right up there, the second tracks, see, came this way. And it's right up from it the road went to Castle Rock. Then when they put the road in up here in was it [19]24? [unclear] then that's when they kind of closed that off and made Manhart Street the main drag.
CORNISH: Yeah, cause I remember when they were in [19]26 when we were here, they, this from here to the south Louviers entrance was all closed up so we went around on this one and the last time before we went back home to New York, closed up the cabins and we were on our way back and the road was open so I can never forget the first ride on the, the cement highway, you know, and so it had to be [19]96, I mean '26 [unclear]. So anyway this is the Beeman house here, okay, ah --
HIER: They also irrigated from that pond, you know, my grandfather was quite a farmer, Mr. Hier said of all the people along the creek he was the best farmer. He came from up state New York, he said he was the best farmer.
CORNISH: Okay, then that was irrigation --
HIER: He irrigated a lot.
CAMPBELL: See there was a pond up above where that big tree fell down that's where -- pooled the water from the creek.
CORNISH: In front of the house?
CAMPBELL: Yeah, up the side, on south of the house.
CORNISH: Okay, in that big field.
CAMPBELL: And that was a big pond --
CORNISH: That was where the pond was, I wasn't sure.
CAMPBELL: And it always had water in it until see they --
HIER: They raised seed corn and oats and --
CAMPBELL: But the working farm now, you notice has nothing.
HIER: My mother helped irrigate and, ah, grandma never did irrigate but my mom would help grandpa irrigate cause she, my mother wanted flowers she got to raise the flowers and grandma said she never got to do it, my mom got to raise flowers.
MACHANN: Cause she helped with the irrigation.
CORNISH: Okay, let's see here, I have James here but I've got Charles up there 1911 son Louis born [18]78 and helped operate the ranch [unclear] when the ranch was sold to the Duncan's — anything I can add to that?
HIER: No, I think that's fine.
CORNISH: I sure, you know I don't want to make mistakes on this stuff to put it in print and have it wrong, but, ah, and anything you want to add to see --
CAMPBELL: -- said 1918, see I was born over there in 1917 and they said I'm not a Sedalian, I was "borned" over on the ranch, I'm not [laughter] but see Duncan can't claim it [unclear] before seventeen --
CORNISH: So you moved into town after that?
HIER: Well, Jack and I were born on the Jackson Creek up back of the --
CORNISH: Oh, you moved from there down --
CAMPBELL: Daniel's Park and all over.
HIER: And then they moved, they lived up on [unclear] farm up by [unclear] on Jackson Creek and we were a year and a half when we moved to town.
CAMPBELL: But Fred said the guy that bought it, he'd love to have some history [unclear]
I don't know nothin' about it, mom just said it was the "hell-hole of the country" and that's all I [unclear] see I was born [unclear] -- This was up at Jackson Creek see the guy who wants to make the [unclear] --
HIER: It was the only part of my mother's life that she never was happy, she couldn't adjust, she [unclear] --
CAMPBELL: George had to bring a horse and two cows, so we had to go put the pasture down --
HIER: My dad lost his [unclear] see -- [all talking at same time]
CAMPBELL: -- and here mom and dad was with seven kids and we had to live in that two-story house, see, and it was only one room downstairs and one room upstairs in back of grandma's, and George wouldn't come without the cows and horses [laughter] then we'd have to peddle milk, see, and up at the pool hall they never washed their bottles and we'd have fits but Jack would take it there and he'd take it to different ones. He was a salesman like mom, he sell 'em anything and Louise and I would pull the wagon [unclear] yeah, we'd put milk in bottles and take it back up to the pool hall.
CORNISH: Well you know Floyd Leach used to tell a story about, ah, the ranchers coming and dumping their, their ah, milk into the creamery and one of 'em reached back in -- oh that damned cat, it gets into everything. [laughter]
CAMPBELL: And him and pop would bring the milk down here then --
CORNISH: Well, yes, apparently, apparently, he didn't say he did that, but somebody did -- [laughter]
CAMPBELL: Well that's the way pop would tell it.
HIER: George and his cousin, Elsie, would bring the, ah, they had it in a tank, and they'd bring the milk to the creamery and then they'd fill the tank up, ah, with swill they called it for the pigs, they'd take it home to the pigs -- you know from the cottage cheese. Well, this one time they brought it to the creamery over here but they lost the plug for the tank so he and Elsie took turns holding their fingers in the tank, [laughter] running behind the tank to hold their fingers --
MACHANN: Oh, running behind it, oh my goodness.
HIER: -- and while they went home and Elsie was dressed very, very nicely -- and my mother said, here they came up the lane, and one of them had their finger in the tank and the other one was drivin' the horses and she just thought it was so funny, thought it was hilarious and my grandma Beeman and Elsie's mother were fit to be tied, they were furious. [laughter] And my mother thought it was the funniest thing she'd ever seen.
MACHANN: Oh, I bet they were just covered with -- what a mess. [laughter]
CAMPBELL: On to the next --
CORNISH: Yeah, well this is the Harcort-Williams Ranch and this, too, might have some flaws in it. Charles Harcort came to the United States from England in 1888 with the Stafford family, they -- up on a homestead near Sedalia and built a log cabin years later--